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iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

techcrunch.com

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Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#361

Post by microflash »

I can't wait for my banking app to ask me to disable sideloading on iOS before I can actually use it. Such idiocy has been rampant on Android with banking apps refusing to launch when Developer Options are enabled.

That aside, I am very happy with this development. I have personal apps that I'd like to sideload without paying for a developer account. I am also looking forward to a more lively open-source ecosystem around iOS apps which has been significantly lackluster compared to that on Android.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#362

Post by mschuster91 »

kroltan wrote: post #316
mschuster91 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a side effect of anti-theft measures. Samsung is the same, you can't unlock them any more without signing in into both Samsung and Google accounts which allows the two companies to detect if the device was registered as stolen. And for what it's worth, Samsung is the worst of the bunch anyway as rooting it permanently bricks the TEE via an e-fuse.

I guess having an account enables that deterrance, but I don't see how it is related to unlocking the bootloader if there was not an account bound beforehand. If signing into an account can be preserved despite the "unlocked" bootloader, there has to be some sort of hypervisor/"secure chip" type deal denying access to the part of the device the account info is stored, no? Otherwise one could erase the account info an…

> If signing into an account can be preserved despite the "unlocked" bootloader, there has to be some sort of hypervisor/"secure chip" type deal denying access to the part of the device the account info is stored, no? Otherwise one could erase the account info and pass the device as untainted anyways.

All Android devices have some sort of TEE these days, otherwise they wouldn't get Netflix and a bunch of other apps people will demand to work.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#363

Post by brookst »

yunwal wrote: post #321
brookst wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they are just as if not more "privacy hostile" as Facebook/Google/etc You're going to have to back that up. Apple is degrading their privacy value prop for sure, but show me their Cambridge Analytica or their "Incognito mode" that still ties web activity back to user identity. > How is this good for privacy? That's a straw man. It is possible to believe that 1) Apple is curbing the worst excesses of abusers like Fa…

> This is a recurring theme on HN and I find it so strange. Are we really supposed to form opinions on what we imagine faceless committees motives are, rather than the actual corporate actions? I’m unsure which side I fall on in this argument, since Apple has had an incredible run of customer-friendly decisions IMO (at least when compared to their competitors, and other near-monopolies). However, it’s important to le…

I agree with everything you've said. I guess I'm just not invested in guessing whether Apple will make better or worse decisions in the future, or at least I don't have enough confidence in my ability to guess correctly to make any kind of purchasing decisions.

I'll buy Apple until there's something better for my utility function. And then I'll switch and I won't look back. I might read a book about how culture, durable advantages, and customer-first policies are intertwined, I suppose.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#364

Post by _fzslm »

vbezhenar wrote: post #345
kaba0 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just make it hard to sideload, like the android dev mode. Then your grandma won’t install anything, but power users can actually use their general purpose devices as such.

Power users can already sideload anything on iPhone. It's not even hard. I guess the whole talk is about making side-loading easier.

what you’re seeing in the iPhone sideloading space is a product of a lot of hard work by many different people over many years. AltServer and the like (what I assume you’re referring to) are the best solutions we have, but come with significant downsides - iOS updates breaking the software, limits on how many apps you can install (last time i checked, you could only install 3), time constraints (need to ”re-sign” apps every week), software constraints (still can’t use JIT or other private APIs without Apple’s blessing), and - relative to using the App Store or Android sideloading - the setup procedure is pretty complicated. on both Macs and PCs, AltServer can be kind of difficult to set up.

all of this has prevented a legitimate sideloading scene from truly emerging on the iPhone - which, depending on where you ideologically stand on this, could be considered monopolistic.

i think there’s definitely room to make the process a lot easier - even if it’s just for power users.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#365

Post by 015a »

TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

I don't see a reality where companies like Facebook or Snapchat start distributing their applications outside the App Store. Maybe we see something where e.g. Facebook tries to spin up their own App Store, for them and anyone else who wants to join, but I would bet every dollar I have that this would simply be a failed venture. Because ultimately most people think, intentionally or not, like you do: Apps come from the App Store. Leaving would be suicide.

The company to watch is Epic Games. If they have the opportunity to bring a new gaming-focused App Store to iOS, to get Fortnite and other games back on the platform: I think they'll take it, and its possible it will do rather well. Giving game devs a distribution channel with a far lower cut of revenue is tempting, and may open the door to higher quality games on mobile. That could pivot to companies like Facebook distributing Instagram through something like the EGS for iOS; but again, I wouldn't bet on it.

Three industries will be massively benefited by this change: Gaming, Gambling, and Porn.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#366

Post by raydev »

jackson1442 wrote: post #270
GeekyBear wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only Facebook makes the Facebook app, and I find it extremely easy to imagine a Facebook app that can only be sideloaded, so that Facebook can bypass the restrictions put in place by the App Store. For instance, Apps are currently not allowed to degrade functionality if the user says no to a permissions request (e.g. location tracking).

Facebook has actually done this before with their Onavo VPN that intercepted all your web traffic in exchange for something like a $5 gift card every month. Distributed publicly using their internal enterprise certificate and got their cert revoked.

Sure, but that's not scalable.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#367

Post by 015a »

tsbinz wrote: post #180
wackget wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that allowing companies the choice to go sideload-only is a bad thing?

If the company is big enough (e.g. not using whatsapp is not an option for a lot of people), or if the app comes from a state that can force you to install it by law, yes it can be.

As opposed to Apple being big enough that they can bully developers into both building for their platform and distributing through the channels they christen?

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#368

Post by GeekyBear »

rickdeckard wrote: post #360
GeekyBear wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Glossy Magazines sell Ads to people interested in those glossy magazines. It's entirely possible to sell ads based on the content of a web page, just like it's possible to sell ads based on the content of a magazine. It's just not as profitable as relentlessly spying on everyone. > Google purchased transaction data to connect online behavior to the real world and refine their Persona profile Google already has more…

> It's entirely possible to sell ads based on the content of a web page. Yes. But at some point i.e. Bentley wants to spend its Marketing money only on people likely to buy a Bentley. If Bentley shops for ads tomorrow, they can select Personas like "Age 40-60", "owns a car" and many others from Meta as well as Google as well as Apple. Those are the "ads relevant to you" Apple talks about in their T&C. Again, I don't…

> at some point i.e. Bentley wants to spend its Marketing money only on people likely to buy a Bentley.

So they can run their ads on web pages that are related to luxury goods.

It's entirely possible to sell ads without relentlessly spying on everyone.

It's just less profitable.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#369

Post by bonestamp2 »

TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

I'm less worried about the large companies than the scammers. If we look at Android, the big name apps will stay in the OEM app store and the scammers will trick the young and old into installing their janky app from an untrusted source. Hopefully Apple will have a setting in parental controls that prevents side loading.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#370

Post by stouset »

FredPret wrote: post #159
nightski wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are doing no such thing. You don't have to use side loaded apps. If a company decides to only distribute from side loading, you can just not use their app. This is effectively what you are forcing on people who would prefer side loading, so it shouldn't be a problem for you.

I want a locked down phone. So does every old person in my life. I'll literally pay extra for a locked-down phone. If you want to side load, buy a phone that allows it, don't force Apple to make one.

FWIW, I am a young person who's professionally employed in cybersecurity.

I also want a locked-down phone with no ability to sideload.

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