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iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

techcrunch.com

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Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#101

Post by FredPret »

Vespasian wrote: post #21
TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

I understand your concern and share some of them. However the solution to overreaching unaccountable private cooperations cannot be to hand all the power to another private unaccountable company. Apple is venturing into advertising and that'll tempt them to weaken privacy protections sooner or later. Additionally their app store rules went far beyond enforcing security and privacy. They gave themselves an advantage a…

I have a tiny measure of power over Apple. I can decide not to buy their products or their stock.

But I have zero power over the EU. And yet they're legislating what my iPhone is going to work like. Talk about unaccountable.

The free market did not deliver competing app stores because that is not a problem for the majority of users and is in fact a huge boon for most.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#102

Post by wmf »

jmull wrote: post #93

Having "side loading" -- also known as regular app installation on non-phone platforms -- hasn't caused chaos on desktop platforms or android. No reason to think it will on iOS either.

A company can get taken down by a .pdf.scr file on Windows.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#103

Post by lolinder »

Spivak wrote: post #75
1over137 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>today you have the ability to install facebook with app store restrictions on iOS and without on Android You have a third choice: don't install facebook at all.

You see how that's worse right? Either give up your privacy or don't use FB. On iOS you can have both.

> On iOS you can have both.

No, you can't. You can have some protections against the most egregious overreaches, but if you're concerned about privacy you shouldn't be on Facebook, ever, on any platform.

Aside from that, there's no way Facebook will remove themselves from the app store. Apple isn't going to make sideloading easy enough for the average Facebook user.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#104

Post by andai »

Edd314159 wrote: post #56
TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

I agree, and the idea of a sideload-able iOS makes me very uneasy. I like the idea of Apple aligning itself with the user to protect me and, more importantly, my tech-unsavvy friends and family, from scams, data-hoarding apps, and just generally crappy software. I don't mind that they take a portion of revenue in return for providing that platform (30% feels too much, but you can't argue that it should be zero). Unfo…

[flagged]

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#105

Post by comboy »

TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

In theory you should be able to run untrusted code and be safe if permissions, sandboxes etc. are organized reasonably.

The idea that you can tell if somebody's else code is malicious just by looking at it is flawed anyway and it's been shown many time over.

Plus they still can automatically scan binaries of sideloaded apps (maybe that is what this is about, they automated enough)

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#106

Post by mft_ »

sneak wrote: post #77
mft_ wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: what are you basing these 'trust' judgements on, especialy in the case of the Android apps? Open source, or something else?

For me, it's where the apps send the credentials or usage information off to. Most apps in the iOS App Store are chock full of spyware that reports on everything you do in the app. Many of the Apple system apps function the same way too (even with analytics disabled).

Again, totally genuine question: how do you know this?

From a (my) relatively uninformed perspective, I'd have expected the opposite - that the iOS App store was more of a 'controlled' environment, and the Play store more like the wild west. But maybe this is just me believing Apple's marketing...

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#107

Post by dvngnt_ »

Spivak wrote: post #75
1over137 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>today you have the ability to install facebook with app store restrictions on iOS and without on Android You have a third choice: don't install facebook at all.

You see how that's worse right? Either give up your privacy or don't use FB. On iOS you can have both.

you have zero privacy on Facebook.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#108

Post by ericmay »

Vespasian wrote: post #21
TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

I understand your concern and share some of them. However the solution to overreaching unaccountable private cooperations cannot be to hand all the power to another private unaccountable company. Apple is venturing into advertising and that'll tempt them to weaken privacy protections sooner or later. Additionally their app store rules went far beyond enforcing security and privacy. They gave themselves an advantage a…

> However the solution to overreaching unaccountable private cooperations cannot be to hand all the power to another private unaccountable company.

Another way of thinking about this is what we're taking this so-called overreaching, unaccountable private corporate power from one company and giving many companies that same power.

> The elected EU legislative took some points from both approaches AFTER the free market failed to implement a meaningful competition for central app stores.

You are presenting both Android and iOS, and default app stores for each platform as a duopoly, which is a mistake, because on Android you can already install third-party app stores. The mobile OS landscape is a duopoly, but there are many app stores across both platforms so is is not really a duopoly, it's just that the Google Play Store and App Store on iOS are superior products (particularly the iOS App Store).

On the OS side I think instead of premature legislation and stagnation we should let things just play out. It's a mistake to assume that because the state of the world is X today that it'll always be X. You can't have instantaneous change. It also might just be the economic reality that having just a couple of operating systems is the best for consumers and the market.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#109

Post by wmf »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #25

This has been bugging me for a few minutes, and I'd be keen on hearing thoughts from other hackers. Given sideloading will be available, does this not create a broader attack vector that government agencies may use to access user data?

Thanks to the sandbox, sideloaded apps will have no more access than regular apps. Of course every app will ask for every permission but that's a different problem.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#110

Post by michelb »

jamil7 wrote: post #63
Edd314159 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, and the idea of a sideload-able iOS makes me very uneasy. I like the idea of Apple aligning itself with the user to protect me and, more importantly, my tech-unsavvy friends and family, from scams, data-hoarding apps, and just generally crappy software. I don't mind that they take a portion of revenue in return for providing that platform (30% feels too much, but you can't argue that it should be zero). Unfo…

> Sideloading is full of risks, and I don't love it. But it's at least a little bit of competition to push Apple towards make the App Store useful again. As someone who develops for the platform, I tend to agree, I'll probably never distribute apps with sideloading, but I think ultimately it's a good thing. I'd also be happy if it attracts more interest and developers to the platform who were previously turned off by…

I think the thing with macOS is, is that if sideloading ever became impossible on mac OS, they would instantly lose most, if not all of the major applications, making the platform irrelevant.
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