Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 587 posts

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#51

Post by 1over137 »

Spivak wrote: post #34
overthrow wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're dreading giving other people the freedom to make one choice, and yourself the freedom to make a different choice (yours being the default option from the factory btw), and everyone gets the privacy/control tradeoff they want?

Software isn't fungible and right now today you have the ability to install facebook with app store restrictions on iOS and without on Android. If FB pulls from the app store that choice is taken away.

>today you have the ability to install facebook with app store restrictions on iOS and without on Android

You have a third choice: don't install facebook at all.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#52

Post by overthrow »

bena wrote: post #30
overthrow wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're dreading giving other people the freedom to make one choice, and yourself the freedom to make a different choice (yours being the default option from the factory btw), and everyone gets the privacy/control tradeoff they want?

I think you're missing something. Meta makes the Facebook app. Currently, the only way to get the Facebook app on iOS is through Apple's App Store. Which means Meta has to follow all of Apple's guidelines. Once sideloading is allowed, Meta can make a version of their app that does not follow Apple's guidelines. Now, they can maintain two apps, but last time I checked, the cost of maintaining one app was lower than th…

If Meta pulled from the official app store, their install rate would go to 0 overnight. And a third-party developer would quickly swoop in and take over the #1 search result for the word "Facebook" (plenty of such apps already exist), so oblivious users would still end up ahead.

Sure they could offer a sideloadable app on their website somewhere, but nobody will find it or use it. If your grandma searches for facebook and the top result says "Friendly for Facebook" instead of just "Facebook", do you really think she'll notice the difference let alone go on a wild goose chase of googling for alternative app stores and clicking through scary warnings?

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#53

Post by legutierr »

Vespasian wrote: post #21
TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

I understand your concern and share some of them. However the solution to overreaching unaccountable private cooperations cannot be to hand all the power to another private unaccountable company. Apple is venturing into advertising and that'll tempt them to weaken privacy protections sooner or later. Additionally their app store rules went far beyond enforcing security and privacy. They gave themselves an advantage a…

> Apple is venturing into advertising and that'll tempt them to weaken privacy protections sooner or later.

I hope they never become this short-sighted. I buy Apple primarily because I believe that they protect my privacy—or at least that they do a better job of it than everyone else.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#54

Post by ascagnel_ »

smoldesu wrote: post #29
nerdjon wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you and I hate that you are being downvoted. People love to say this is about choice for the consumer but it really is not going to be. My fear is that the choice will be taken away from my by companies that are no longer able to engage in shady behavior on iOS. Things like trying to collect all my data, forcing me into their billing system, shady subscriptions (like how I can cancel or reminders of it b…

> but overtime I no longer have the choice to avoid these alternate stores or to side load Maybe Apple should update the terms of the App Store to be more competitive/attractive then.

There are no terms on which companies big enough to already be bad actors and not get banned[0] won't at least push users to their own app stores where they can easily sidestep any of Apple's privacy rules.

[0]: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/01/facebook-and-google-...

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#55

Post by EMIRELADERO »

jamil7 wrote: post #31
lewisflude wrote: post #24

If Apple do implement this, I hope they can ensure 3rd party apps live in a sandbox or otherwise need to be given explicit permissions. One big argument I've seen against side-loading on iOS is people like the confidence of knowing that an app has to play by iOS's rules, so if we can bring this to the world of side-loading then this could be a win-win for "both camps".

It will still run in a sandbox, that's how iOS works. It just will bypass app store review, meaning certain rules won't be enforced.

Careful!

7. The gatekeeper shall allow providers of services and providers of hardware, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purposes of interoperability to, the same hardware and software features accessed or controlled via the operating system or virtual assistant listed in the designation decision pursuant to Article 3(9) as are available to services or hardware provided by the gatekeeper. Furthermore, the gatekeeper shall allow business users and alternative providers of services provided together with, or in support of, core platform services, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purposes of interoperability to, the same operating system, hardware or software features, regardless of whether those features are part of the operating system, as are available to, or used by, that gatekeeper when providing such services.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#56

Post by Edd314159 »

TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

I agree, and the idea of a sideload-able iOS makes me very uneasy. I like the idea of Apple aligning itself with the user to protect me and, more importantly, my tech-unsavvy friends and family, from scams, data-hoarding apps, and just generally crappy software. I don't mind that they take a portion of revenue in return for providing that platform (30% feels too much, but you can't argue that it should be zero).

Unfortunately, in practice, Apple have proven to be entirely incompetent at achieving that protection. The App Store is 90%+ garbage and scams. It's completely unusable for any form of discovery. Even when you know exactly what app you're looking for, you have to wade through copycats, typo squatters, and even paid adverts trying to distract you from your search.

Sideloading is full of risks, and I don't love it. But it's at least a little bit of competition to push Apple towards make the App Store useful again.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#57

Post by hwbehrens »

smoldesu wrote: post #29
nerdjon wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you and I hate that you are being downvoted. People love to say this is about choice for the consumer but it really is not going to be. My fear is that the choice will be taken away from my by companies that are no longer able to engage in shady behavior on iOS. Things like trying to collect all my data, forcing me into their billing system, shady subscriptions (like how I can cancel or reminders of it b…

> but overtime I no longer have the choice to avoid these alternate stores or to side load Maybe Apple should update the terms of the App Store to be more competitive/attractive then.

Per the parent comment, the terms they would have to add to be competitive in this scenario would be "Developers can blatantly and horrendously mine all sensitive data from users." which, while they would be appreciated by many businesses that want to provide apps to iOS users, may not be as desirable to the users themselves.

Essentially, what I believe that parent comment is calling out is that Apple is currently (voluntarily) acting as a user advocate by discouraging exploitative behavior, and enforcing that position using their monopsony.

When the monopsony breaks down, Apple will lose the power to enforce this rule, and exploitative practices will become the new norm. Of course, this does take a somewhat paternalistic view of users, in that it assumes that people will continue to use TikTok, Instagram, and so on despite their privacy being grossly violated. I think that this assumption does have a strong precedence, however.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#59

Post by nerdjon »

1over137 wrote: post #45
nerdjon wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you and I hate that you are being downvoted. People love to say this is about choice for the consumer but it really is not going to be. My fear is that the choice will be taken away from my by companies that are no longer able to engage in shady behavior on iOS. Things like trying to collect all my data, forcing me into their billing system, shady subscriptions (like how I can cancel or reminders of it b…

>...this could be a trend that starts small but overtime I no longer have the choice to avoid these alternate stores... You wouldn't lose that choice. Want only Apple-vetted apps? Only use their App Store. Easy. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but you seem to be saying: 'evil facebook will harvest more data, but I want to keep using evil facebook'. Maybe the conclusion you need to reach is that you should stop using face…

No I am not saying I want to continue using Facebook, but as more technical people we have to understand the impact that this has on non technical people.

Short term we may just see apps like Facebook, TikTok, and others that wish to engage in shady practices put out a side loaded app. Fine no harm done I can just choose to not use those.

But as they get more users they could push their own app stores that make it even easier for other smaller apps to ditch the App Store entirely.

My concern is not what happens right away for me. (But we should all be concerned about companies like Facebook being able to harvest more data and be more shady for others). But as time goes on and if I need a certain app that I no longer have the choice of using an App Store with basic protections in place because its too easy for a developer to use the alternate store.

We all know that app developers love to use really shady practices, this is just going to make it worse.

Post reply on HN