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'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

joannejacobs.com

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Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#341

Post by say_it_as_it_is »

praxulus wrote: post #32

I live in Seattle, not San Francisco, but we have some similar issues with our schools. I'd really prefer to send my son to our local public schools, but if they aren't challenging him appropriately then my wife and I obviously aren't going to just give up on his education. We'll either pay for extracurricular enrichment like the person in this article, move to a wealthy suburb, or send him to a private school instea…

The greater good isn't dumbing down but wising up. The former is the current strategy. Don't play their game.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#342

Post by euroderf »

I see here echoes of problems in the Finnish system (at least as far as I understand it).

The system is designed to be inclusive and promote equality of opportunity. In practice this means classes with uninterested and preternaturally disruptive kids who spoil it for kids who actually want to learn.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#343

Post by HlessClaudesman »

com2kid wrote: post #277
HlessClaudesman wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extrinsic motivation works, for a decent percentage of people, as long as the reward keeps comming. Therefore it would probably need to be coupled with more vocational training/ apprenticeships/ internships to ease passage into the adult world of extrinsic motivations.

> Extrinsic motivation works, for a decent percentage of people, as long as the reward keeps comming. Therein lines the problem. Pay people enough $ and they'll go to the gym and get in shape, but once the $ stops they'll almost universally stop going. Take people who have a regular gym habit, start paying them, stop paying them and most of them will stop going to the gym, adding in the extrinsic motivation will actu…

How can a public institution foster intrinsic motivation within an individual? Better to focus limited resources on what institutions have some competence at: throwing money at a problem.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#344

Post by chadcmulligan »

ertian wrote: post #339
chadcmulligan wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the trick is to remove poverty, it's not hard to do

Sarcasm?

No, not at all, take 10% of the military budget, up the tax right for the high earners and make a better world. Imagine a place where no one had to be scared of living on the street, could get decent food, has access to free education and health care. What a wonderful world. It's totally within our capabilities and no one need suffer. Now I'm not saying it will be a great life but a basic life, it's been proved over and over that the limiting factor for a number of minorities is poverty, so unless you address that first nothing will be solved. Sure some people will abuse it, but think of the kids that will be able to get an education and eat properly, and its just easy.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#345

Post by ALittleLight »

smaudet wrote: post #312
40yearoldman wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a much worse outcome from an equity lens Bingo, that is the issue, everybody is worried about equity. You can't have it, we need meritocracy, equity is just cruel and unusual punishment to future. It is a recipe for driving society to the lowest common denominator. You should demand proper education or your money back. (Side note, this is what we will get 10x with free college, and the guaranteed loans have…

> equity is just cruel and unusual punishment to future Equality of outcome can be an undesired outcome, equality of opportunity is completely different. The only trouble is getting the opportunities to be equal - there must be no advantage that can be unfairly given to one more deserving student than another, being able or willing to send your children to summer bootcamps must be an option for all children (who qual…

No, equality of opportunity is cruel and counter productive for exactly the reasons you mention. You cannot realistically achieve equality by elevating everyone, which means you need to focus on taking away from people.

The moral and practical thing to do would be focusing on improving objective outcomes. Focusing on equality degrades objective outcomes in favor of moral perversion - taking away from some to make others feel better.

Imagine the child of two millionaire college professors. What will you do to equalize this child's opportunity with a child in the inner city of (pick a bad city)?

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#346

Post by bb010g »

istinetz wrote: post #299
testfoobar wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its like people are willfully ignoring the obvious: Black and Hispanic kids do the worst in math. Understanding why and correcting for the problems is a complex task. Making big proclamations about equity isn't going to do it. Family life matters to the growth and development of children. 64% of Black children live in single parent homes vs. 16% of Asian kids. How does this effect math results? Black children are mor…

[flagged]

False & racist. Please see https://youtu.be/UBc7qBS1Ujo for an extended explanation of why this is a horrible position. We don't even have strong scientific evidence that Spearman's g factor is more than a statistical convenience.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#347

Post by giantg2 »

alex_sf wrote: post #290
giantg2 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"decided that it conferred an unfair advantage to the gifted and was therefore illegal and had it dismantled." What the actual fuck.

That's what achieving equity means.

Which is stupid because you can't actually achieve equity here.

Stick kids with an IQ 120+ in the same room as the others and they will teach themselves out of curiosity (in some subjects at least), or retain more than the other kids.

If we're using the classic fence example where each person gets a box just tall enough to see over the fence, then what were trying to do here is dig a fuckng hole for the taller (smarter) kids to stand in.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#348

Post by t0suj4 »

HlessClaudesman wrote: post #343
com2kid wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Extrinsic motivation works, for a decent percentage of people, as long as the reward keeps comming. Therein lines the problem. Pay people enough $ and they'll go to the gym and get in shape, but once the $ stops they'll almost universally stop going. Take people who have a regular gym habit, start paying them, stop paying them and most of them will stop going to the gym, adding in the extrinsic motivation will actu…

How can a public institution foster intrinsic motivation within an individual? Better to focus limited resources on what institutions have some competence at: throwing money at a problem.

For starters treat the kids like people. I don't know how many times kids compared their schools to prisons. Nobody wants to be in prison.

The home environment also contributes a great deal to academic success or failure. I know of households that actively dissuade kids from pursuing academic success. If parents won't intervene in their children's education for any reason that diminishes their chance of success.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#349

Post by hardware2win »

Dalewyn wrote: post #22
jschveibinz wrote: post #2

Argh this grinds my gears. It’s the education SYSTEM that is wrong. We are working with a 150 year old way of educating kids that does not apply to our culture today. Kids aren’t going to work on the farm or in a factory. They need the math!!! For courses like algebra, etc. kids need support at home from parents. When that support isn’t available (for whatever reason), don’t water down the content for goodness sake.…

>Kids aren’t going to work on the farm or in a factory. They need the math!!! As someone who fucking hated and still hates academical math: No, kids do not need math. Not in the sense as taught in schools, anyway. That is a straight waste of precious time. What kids need is broader context and guidance for what math is, how it applies to the world around us, how we can use it, and why it's important. Fuck quadratic e…

Practicing Math means practicing logic

This is the most powerful tool for making your life easier

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#350

Post by Cymrukicks »

ALittleLight wrote: post #345
smaudet wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> equity is just cruel and unusual punishment to future Equality of outcome can be an undesired outcome, equality of opportunity is completely different. The only trouble is getting the opportunities to be equal - there must be no advantage that can be unfairly given to one more deserving student than another, being able or willing to send your children to summer bootcamps must be an option for all children (who qual…

No, equality of opportunity is cruel and counter productive for exactly the reasons you mention. You cannot realistically achieve equality by elevating everyone, which means you need to focus on taking away from people. The moral and practical thing to do would be focusing on improving objective outcomes. Focusing on equality degrades objective outcomes in favor of moral perversion - taking away from some to make oth…

To answer your question first you make sure that child has the same education resources available that the professors child does throughout all aspects of their life. You also make the professors available to children from those inner city areas widening the networking effects that the children of the professor gets. they won't be as good but you open them up.

Improving objective outcomes is some Krypton level shit, "Your a black doctor and were trained to be one from birth due to the outcome we wanted." "I wanted to be an artist."

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