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'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

joannejacobs.com

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Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#31

Post by jerojero »

jschveibinz wrote: post #2

Argh this grinds my gears. It’s the education SYSTEM that is wrong. We are working with a 150 year old way of educating kids that does not apply to our culture today. Kids aren’t going to work on the farm or in a factory. They need the math!!! For courses like algebra, etc. kids need support at home from parents. When that support isn’t available (for whatever reason), don’t water down the content for goodness sake.…

I mostly agree with you, except on one aspect.

We cannot rely on support from parents, the system we design needs to be thought of with parents out of the equation because in the case of the most vulnerable of kids they will not have parents that can help them. Special tutoring needs to be a part of the system, outsourcing the work will make things cheaper but it will complicate things for those struggling.

Kids in need should be our priority, because the ones that have supportive parents are really going to receive that support regardless.

I agree on everything else though. Content shouldn't be watered down, school needs to be a safe haven for kids in need. We should be having our most capable people thinking on how to improve the educational system so that we can truly bring everyone forward as we progress.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#32

Post by praxulus »

I live in Seattle, not San Francisco, but we have some similar issues with our schools. I'd really prefer to send my son to our local public schools, but if they aren't challenging him appropriately then my wife and I obviously aren't going to just give up on his education. We'll either pay for extracurricular enrichment like the person in this article, move to a wealthy suburb, or send him to a private school instead.

That's a much worse outcome from an equity lens, but there's only so much you can expect people to voluntarily sacrifice for the greater good. Asking higher income parents to risk their children's future is a lot.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#33

Post by Avicebron »

I'll be the first to admit that I'm chronically stupid, but can someone help parse the linked SFUSD's decision for me: https://www.sfusdmath.org/richard-carranzas-remarks-to-board...

(it's linked in the article as the decision to push math back a year). But I'm having trouble understanding why not exposing students to a subject earlier would be better for their development with that subject.

Are they supposed to absorb the knowledge for that between 8th-9th grade somehow without knowing what it is?

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#34

Post by imgabe »

theGnuMe wrote: post #18
foolfoolz wrote: post #14

math is just the beginning of these backwards policies. public schools in california have been removing advanced classes in the name of “equity” for years. the racial enrollment in those classes did not reflect the racial enrollment of the school. the result? parents moving kids to private school. at the school nearest me they kindergarten enrollment is dropping. they are likely going to only have a a single class in…

My contrarian take is that algebra and calculus are pre requisites for for ap calc which is primarily used for elite college admission decisions.

Algebra is basic math that every adult should know in and of itself, not something that is only needed to take AP calculus.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#35

Post by Invictus0 »

dilippkumar wrote: post #28

Meanwhile, I experienced one of the most unique job interviews at an autonomous driving company just this last week. It was 45 mins of math. Questions ranging from simple algebra to probability theory to physics. And I was applying for an embedded systems position. Boy was I glad that I was good at that kind of math.

What is that supposed to prove? Any type of engineer or mathematician could pass that interview and still not know anything about coding.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#36

Post by jeffbee »

It's interesting how path-dependency makes these things seem like controversial reforms, while nearby districts have always done it this way. In Berkeley, for example, there isn't any course called "Algebra I" or II. Through 8th grade there is just math, with no differentiation. Then for 9th grade you can test into an advanced track, and people take either Math 1/2/3 or Advanced Math 1/2/3. In senior year any of these people can take AP Statistics or Calculus AB, but only the advanced track can take AP Calculus BC.

So anyway the point is Berkeley has always done math the "reform" way and its math outcomes are much better in every respect. It gives one the impression that San Francisco's issues are other than with the reform.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#37

Post by TimTheTinker »

g9yuayon wrote: post #24

> "Families with resources turn to fee-required online algebra 1 courses in eighth grade, outside the public school system, or enroll their kids in private schools," Isn't this obvious result? The Russian School of Mathematics could manage to teach 10-year old kids basic algebra. And there's AOPS, there's Think Academy, and slew of local tutoring schools who can teach kids relatively advanced maths. Let alone many pr…

> in the name of equity

That's the problem. We're dealing with the critical theory definition of equity, which they define as the intentional redistribution of opportunity and resources along identity group lines to correct for present and historical injustices, as well as opportunities those groups have already had.

Critical theory and social justice adopts a distorted view of reality. Leave it to a school in San Francisco to show everyone what happens in real life when administrators adopt a policy based on that distorted view of reality -- inequality is only increased.

In fact, I'd classify critical theory alongside Marxism for adopting a false belief that some top-down forced redistribution of resources/wealth/opportunity/means of production/etc. is the way to true justice. That kind of belief backfires spectacularly when policy makers adopt it IRL.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#39

Post by KiranRao0 »

tiedieconderoga wrote: post #11

It sounds like they tried to set up a large one-size-fits-all program. This might be a good time to bring up Lockhart's Lament , which imagines what artistic education would look like if we treated it like math. https://archive.org/details/AMathematiciansLament Nobody with decision-making power in a school district likes the answer which this paper proposes: very small class sizes.

I would expect small class sizes to be considerably more expensive.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#40

Post by SuzanSarong »

boringuser2 wrote: post #16

> That didn't happen, concludes a study by a team of Stanford professors. "Large ethnoracial gaps in advanced math course-taking . . . did not change." Is there anything that will get these people to realize that maybe they are working with a hypothesis that is fundamentally flawed? It doesn't take a large amount of thinking to imagine what might have more predictive power in explaining what's going on here.

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