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Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

economist.com

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Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#81

Post by aksss »

manojr13 wrote: post #24

Any level of income growth at the expense of income disparity and safety is not worth it. US will slowly become a net emigration center during this decade. The symptoms are already mushrooming.

Really? You are forecasting that the US will have a net loss in people coming in vs leaving this decade, meaning checks watch prior to 2030?

I guess let’s see how this ages but I can’t think of any sober analysis that would lead me to that conclusion. Who’s leaving, with such desire and the means to do so? Who’s desirous of coming in? What’s the strength of motivation in first group vs second (how much gain vs loss do each have at stake)? The numbers seem severely lopsided.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#82

Post by WBrentWilliams »

hotpotamus wrote: post #55
wyager wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The average French person has a life expectancy of 82. In Mississippi it’s 74.9 Like 90% of these "gotchas" for southern states (including lifespan comparisons) end up decreasing or disappearing entirely when you condition on racial demographics. Not to say that invalidates the problem; just that comparing Mississippi to France doesn't make sense at all from a demographic standpoint.

Why does race need to be brought into it?

In the US, race is shorthand for class. In the US, class is not supposed to be noticed. Race is difficult (and insulting) to ignore. See also: https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520261303/being-black-livin...

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#83

Post by Gareth321 »

ttul wrote: post #34
non- wrote: post #6

> The flexibility of the labour market helps employment adapt to shifting patterns of demand. Already many of the workers in America who were laid off from Alphabet and other tech firms at the start of the year are applying their sought-after skills elsewhere, or setting up their own businesses. In continental Europe, by contrast, tech firms are still negotiating lay-offs, and may think twice about hiring there in fu…

America operates on the principal that it is better to fail quickly and rebuild than it is to defend what’s not working to preserve the status quo for as long as possible. In a century marked by rapid technological change, it is probably better to hybridize the American and European approaches, allowing faster bankruptcies and more flexible job termination in Europe while also providing a more generous safety net in…

> America operates on the principal that it is better to fail quickly and rebuild than it is to defend what’s not working to preserve the status quo for as long as possible. In a century marked by rapid technological change, it is probably better to hybridize the American and European approaches, allowing faster bankruptcies and more flexible job termination in Europe while also providing a more generous safety net in the US.

This is Denmark's model and it works very well. Denmark is considered the easiest to do business in Europe, and #4 globally (https://www.copcap.com/news/denmark-is-the-easiest-place-for....).

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#84

Post by dauertewigkeit »

What I do not like in these discussions is that there are always a bunch of fellow Europeans, trying to link economic success to economic inequality.

1. Nothing says it has to be this way, and taking the big picture of history in perspective, it definitely is not that way.

2. Inequality comes in many forms. Corporate and financial culture in Europe pretty much says that you are only allowed to be an entrepreneur if you are born in the right (i.e. rich) family. It is a much smaller club. The European corporate culture is also one with a much stronger hierarchy between the workers, the managers and the executives. In Europe, university degrees and other forms of bureaucracy further inhibit career progress. Glass ceilings are much, more prevalent everywhere, many of which would be illegal in the US. The salaries are lower and the taxes much higher. All of these are also forms of inequality. This talk that compares the beggar on the streets with Elon Musk is a bit myopic.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#85

Post by ttul »

Gareth321 wrote: post #83
ttul wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America operates on the principal that it is better to fail quickly and rebuild than it is to defend what’s not working to preserve the status quo for as long as possible. In a century marked by rapid technological change, it is probably better to hybridize the American and European approaches, allowing faster bankruptcies and more flexible job termination in Europe while also providing a more generous safety net in…

> America operates on the principal that it is better to fail quickly and rebuild than it is to defend what’s not working to preserve the status quo for as long as possible. In a century marked by rapid technological change, it is probably better to hybridize the American and European approaches, allowing faster bankruptcies and more flexible job termination in Europe while also providing a more generous safety net i…

Denmark came to mind as I was writing my comment, but I am not well enough informed. Thanks.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#86

Post by DaedPsyker »

DwnVoteHoneyPot wrote: post #77
camillomiller wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check your facts. As much as I am a firm European democrat, you might wanna see what Chinese “state driven capitalist communism” has done between 1975 and today. Again, if the measure is number of people lifted out of poverty, China wins hands down. Now, as much as we can’t consider China’s success without considering the lack of freedoms inscribed within the communist social pact, we can’t take just the good of Amer…

Check your perspective. Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan, Korea all industrialized faster and have a higher standard of living than China. All did it in the 1980s - 40 years ago. All did it without oppressive communism.

While it might not have been communist, Korea certainly was oppressive when it built the chaebols which did involve a fair bit of government management.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#87

Post by pseudo0 »

ttul wrote: post #34
non- wrote: post #6

> The flexibility of the labour market helps employment adapt to shifting patterns of demand. Already many of the workers in America who were laid off from Alphabet and other tech firms at the start of the year are applying their sought-after skills elsewhere, or setting up their own businesses. In continental Europe, by contrast, tech firms are still negotiating lay-offs, and may think twice about hiring there in fu…

America operates on the principal that it is better to fail quickly and rebuild than it is to defend what’s not working to preserve the status quo for as long as possible. In a century marked by rapid technological change, it is probably better to hybridize the American and European approaches, allowing faster bankruptcies and more flexible job termination in Europe while also providing a more generous safety net in…

> And many countries are well positioned to make such a move. For example, Canada already has free healthcare and generous family credits that rebalance wealth automatically to the bottom, promoting labour mobility. Yet it also has a flexible labour policy, efficient courts, excellent corporation law, and fast bankruptcy resolution.

Feel free to move to Canada if you want half the wages, twice as expensive housing, and a multi-year wait to get a family doctor. There is a reason why so many Canadians end up working in the US on TN or H1 visas.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#88

Post by bryanrasmussen »

marianatom wrote: post #65
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>affordance for more food and richer food yeah, the U.S eats richer food than the French.

More available produce year round. Cheaper imported food from around the world due to dollar's strength. More diverse cuisines in big cities, with a lot better Asian cuisines (sushi!) in general than France, due to large immigrations.

The definition of richness in food is generally heavy in natural fats in proteins, high in butter and cream of a high quality.

American butter and cream is ludicrously bad. There is just enough taste to it to make the stuff inedible.

Sushi is not a rich food.

Sauces with a lot of butter and fats in them are 'rich', pastries can be rich, depending mainly on the fattiness of the cream and butter.

on edit: French cuisine is generally thought of as one of the richest in the world, hence my use of them as an example.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#89

Post by cozos »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #50
psychlops wrote: post #11

Manufacturing is noticeably absent from the list of successes.

US manufacturing continues to grow almost monotonically, it is wildly successful. The only thing that has declined is manufacturing jobs due to the high levels of automation used in American manufacturing.

what are some successful stories of American manufacturing?

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#90

Post by DangitBobby »

tormeh wrote: post #68
marianatom wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are walkable US cities, and one can move to NY, Chicago, Boston, Seattle or its outskirts. However, people choose to stay in the suburbs because they can afford it.

Isn't it the other way around? People have to stay in the suburbs because they can't afford to move to NYC?

Yes. I live in the suburbs in the outskirts of a major city. I might consider more seriously the trade-offs of actually living in the city if I could justify the cost of living increase.
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