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Surviving Burnout (2015)

lifeofaudrey.com

141–150 of 171 posts

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#141
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In short, depression, to me, was total and absolute hopelessness. Burn out, on the other hand, brought me dread, anxiety, exhaustion, and the feeling of being trapped in a pointless but never-ending cycle. If I were to dive into more details, depression gave me a rock-solid certainty that I could never be happy, or meaningfully enjoy life in any meaningful way. There might have been some joyous and light-hearted mome…

How did you get yourself out of these? I find I just don’t have ambitions for anything anymore. I simply exist without any hope/expectation of joy/excitement. I used to be more energetic and fairly optimistic. I’m not even stressed and have overcome a few minor health issues that used to bother me. Yet at this point, I can’t help but feel the best years have passed and now it just a slow decline to the end. (But no t…

I am not entirely sure that I have. And often wonder if I ever will feel it is truly, once and for all, all behind me.

A few things have been helpful though.

• First, the obvious

Quitting the jobs that burned me out.

Avoiding, like the plague, hyper-political or hypocritical work environments. I’ve got better things to than play Game of Thrones or The Young and the Restless.

• The usual

Finding a good therapist. Most will be utterly useless. Competency aside, one that works for one person will be completely unhelpful to someone else. But one that works for you will help you identify and change patterns, in both your everyday life and your "macro" life. They won’t do the work for you, but they will be of tremendous help.

Started doing what I wanted to do as a kid but never did, or not enough. In my case it was surfing and skating. As a child I used to watch those people surfing and skating in movies and wanting to do it too. Turns out, it’s quite fun. Tedious (surfing), and sometimes painful (skating), but really pleasant. It won’t change your life, but in the moment it might just make going through the rest feel like it was worth it.

I went back to activities I used to like but had stopped. For me, it was snorkelling, hiking, and scuba diving. I had entirely forgotten the sense of wonder and excitement that came with it. Scuba diving with a stubborn one year old otitis wasn’t the best of ideas, but we didn’t go below 6m, so it was fine.

• The less obvious and slightly unrelated:

Letting go of high-maintenance friendships and relationships, and letting them die off. It’s incredible how much cognitive and emotional bandwidth these things can take.

• Others

But what has really stuck with me is experimenting. Freeing up some time to experiment with new things. Trying out new things, making new things. Seeing what gets me excited, what sticks, what tickles my brain, and getting back that sense of play in my day to day life.

Lately for me, it’s been stable diffusion and LLM applications, but it can really be anything. The important part is that it should feel more like play than work. The kind of thing that makes you feel so excited you genuinely want to tell everybody about it.

Which unexpectedly reminds me of two people.

The first, a pilot. I wanted to be one at the time, and had somehow gotten a job at the airport so I could see planes all day, meet some pilots, and ask them everything that came to my mind. One of them told that most people didn’t understand that when they (the pilots) went to work, they weren’t going to work. They were going to play. It stuck with me. I obviously didn’t become a pilot, but it stuck.

And the second is Feynman, or more accurately his autobiography ("Surely you’re joking M. Feynman", which I can only wholeheartedly recommend), when he somehow grew bored with physics.

It’s a rather long excerpt, but having looked it up to make sure I wasn’t making it up, here you go:

> Then I had another thought: Physics disgusts me a little bit now, but I used to enjoy doing physics. Why did I enjoy it? I used to play with it. I used to do whatever I felt like doing – it didn’t have to do with whether it was important for the development of nuclear physics, but whether it was interesting and amusing for me to play with. When I was in high school, I’d see water running out of a faucet growing narrower, and wonder if I could figure out what determines that curve. I found it was rather easy to do. I didn’t have to do it; it wasn’t important for the future of science; somebody else had already done it. That didn’t make any difference. I’d invent things and play with things for my own entertainment.

> So I got this new attitude. Now that I am burned out and I’ll never accomplish anything, I’ve got this nice position at the university teaching classes which I rather enjoy, and just like I read the Arabian Nights for pleasure, I’m going to play with physics, whenever I want to, without worrying about any importance whatsoever.

> Within a week I was in the cafeteria and some guy, fooling around, throws a plate in the air. As the plate went up in the air I saw it wobble, and I noticed the red medallion of Cornell on the plate going around. It was pretty obvious to me that the medallion went around faster than the wobbling.

> I had nothing to do, so I start to figure out the motion of the rotating plate. I discover that when the angle is very slight, the medallion rotates twice as fast as the wobble rate. Then I thought, “Is there some way I can see in a more fundamental way, by looking at the forces or the dynamics?”

> I don’t remember how I did it, but I ultimately worked out what the motion of the mass particles is, and how all the accelerations balance… I still remember going to Hans Bethe and saying, “Hey, Hans! I noticed something interesting. Here the plate goes around so, and the reason it’s two to one is …” and I showed him the accelerations.

> He says, “Feynman, that’s pretty interesting, but what’s the importance of it? Why are you doing it?”

> “Hah!” I say. “There’s no importance whatsoever. I’m just doing it for the fun of it.” His reaction didn’t discourage me; I had made up my mind I was going to enjoy physics and do whatever I liked.

> It was effortless. It was easy to play with these things. It was like uncorking a bottle: Everything flowed out effortlessly. I almost tried to resist it! There was no importance to what I was doing, but ultimately there was. The diagrams and the whole business that I got the Nobel Prize for came from that piddling around with the wobbling plate.

All that being said, I don’t really know wether I am truly out of depression, for good, or if it’s just an exceptionally long relief. While it feels okay now, I can regularly see patterns that I wish were long gone creeping back. And I honestly can’t tell wether it’s just me just overreacting, or if it means it will be a life-long struggle.

But it does seem to get easier with time. It takes some effort, every day. But it gets easier

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#142
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely spot on from my personal experience. FWIW, I have seen this in every startup I've joined.

Why do you think that is? Is it because the founders are inexperienced at running an organisation perhaps?

n=3 here but the amount of straight up nepotism I've seen makes my head spin.

I recently quit a job, without another lined up, at a startup where I couldn't even last a year. The CTO and the entire engineering management layer under him were all friends from high school.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#143
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be asking too much on a public forum, but would you be able to describe what differentiates these two for you? Feel free to decline if it's too personal or you just don't feel like it.

In short, depression, to me, was total and absolute hopelessness. Burn out, on the other hand, brought me dread, anxiety, exhaustion, and the feeling of being trapped in a pointless but never-ending cycle. If I were to dive into more details, depression gave me a rock-solid certainty that I could never be happy, or meaningfully enjoy life in any meaningful way. There might have been some joyous and light-hearted mome…

I want to thank you for sharing and to return the favor by sharing some of myself. Don't feel like you have to respond or even read it. I just feel bad for asking you to share without providing you with anything back. I'm a afraid I'm going through something similar myself, and it's incredibly valuable for me to read what you've gone though and relate that to myself. I honestly have no idea how I'll handle this or what I'll do.

I'm working on somehow getting a new job (although the self-doubt, fear, and guilt is making is really difficult), and I'm hoping that getting a whiff of something new will at least provide some hope for something worth living for. I don't know if I even like software anymore. I don't know if I was ever good at it, if I'm even good at anything, but I have to believe, because what's the alternative?

Meanwhile I just keep showing up, attending meetings with people yelling at me. Blaming me for the technical problems they didn't want to allocate resources to fix. Even then I can't convince myself that It's not actually MY fault. Maybe i truly didn't communicate how poor the technical state was. Maybe I did actually deserve to be yelled at. Maybe I'm just fucking useless. What's more likely, a whole layer of middle managers being wrong, or that I'm just fucking useless? Wisdom of the crowds and such.

At least I know that my struggle is actually a struggle, and not just me being a weak baby about it, So thank you for that comfort.

PS: It's also quite a coincidence that you started skating. I too recalled how "cool" i thought the skaters looked when I was young, the happy days of playing Tony Hawk Pro Skater, and how I longed to be cool like that. After riding an electric long board for a year I decided that maybe skating an acoustic skateboard would be fun, and it is. When skating I feel like I'm doing something. I don't feel like i need to be good. I feel cool. Maybe you don't have to be good at your job, maybe you can just be cool.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you get yourself out of these? I find I just don’t have ambitions for anything anymore. I simply exist without any hope/expectation of joy/excitement. I used to be more energetic and fairly optimistic. I’m not even stressed and have overcome a few minor health issues that used to bother me. Yet at this point, I can’t help but feel the best years have passed and now it just a slow decline to the end. (But no t…

> I find I just don’t have ambitions for anything anymore. I simply exist without any hope/expectation of joy/excitement. Been there. It gets better, but you will have to change some things. This is what worked for me: allow yourself to have fun. It is not frivolous. It is not insignificant. It is an important part of a fulfilling life, so make time for it. Literally carve some time for it and put it in your daily/we…

> Passive activities like watching TV/podcasts/videogames are a bad choice.

I'd like to chime in and say that social video games like CSGO or Dota or whatever with friends on discord can be wonderful social activities.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More companies should employ such coaches and schedule regular sessions for all their employees That honestly sounds dreadful to me, exactly the kind of management-driven nonsense that would make me more likely to quit. If you want your employees pumped up about work, focus on treating them well not hiring cheerleaders.

> If you want your employees pumped up about work, focus on treating them well not hiring cheerleaders. How is the company supposed to know what "treating you well" means if they don't have people who try to figure out what that phrase means to each individual? Different strokes for different folks, and all that. I'm not picking on you personally, but throughout this entire thread the sentiments I quoted above have b…

A therapist?! Good lord. Call me old fashioned but everything you've described, I would normally expect to be the responsibility of a line manager. If you need a therapist to extract that information then doesn't that indicate a dysfunctional relationship? Why can't a manager just sit down and chat with an employee about what they're looking for, like two adults diacussing someone's career aspirations? Why does it require weekly therapy sessions unless something is badly wrong?

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want your employees pumped up about work, focus on treating them well not hiring cheerleaders. How is the company supposed to know what "treating you well" means if they don't have people who try to figure out what that phrase means to each individual? Different strokes for different folks, and all that. I'm not picking on you personally, but throughout this entire thread the sentiments I quoted above have b…

Yep, plus, "treating people well" is something that's truly difficult to scale. Think of any nationally size company that interacts with the public - hotel chains, airlines, etc. Everything is process layered on top of process layered on top of process, which helps define minimum standards, but no process can truly standardize how to go "above and beyond" because that's such an individual and in-the-moment thing. Ins…

It was a comment on a message board, not a comprehensive guide. I wasn't trying to be fully prescriptive - I was summarising and assuming some interpretation on the part of the reader.

As a line manager, ask your employees what they're looking for and provide an environment where they trust you enough to be honest. Then have an adult discussion about the feasibility of delivering what they want and whether some compromise is in order - 'more ponies' is not possible, 'more money' might engender more responsibility, 'more flexible working hours' can easily be accommodated, for example. If doing this effectively requires a therapist then perhaps the organisation should focus on coaching the managers, not the workers.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>More companies should employ such coaches and schedule regular sessions for all their employees. Yet another fluff meeting that detracts from getting stuff done, adds pressure to deadlines, and is just supposed to make us feel good like a 'pizza party'? To try to encourage us to ignore our families and stay up late working for the company's gain? I haven't seen the show, but I'm a little cynical of the premise. I on…

The character portrayed is a trained therapist. Not a consultant, not a lifestyle coach (most of whom have little formal training and are there because they don’t know what else to do with their lives), but somebody who is there to figure out what you need to work through emotionally to succeed in your role. I have a private therapist who deals with my personal, and sometimes work, issues. It has been a major contrib…

When I hit burnout I had a therapist for awhile, and that was very helpful.

But I certainly wouldn't want my therapist to be owned by and reporting to my employer, nor would I want to lose my therapist if I switched jobs. It's likely when you do lose or quit your job that you need your therapist most.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#148
post #11

> Structural problems require structural solutions. Healthy organizations, healthy people. It's not the author's conclusion, but this is basically my fantasy ever since watching Billions with Wendy Rhoades's character. In that show, Wendy is a performance coach working for a hedge fund whose job is to emotionally pump up the people who work for the hedge fund. The hedge fund employs her because (leaving aside the soa…

This is a really good idea, but all the negative comments in this thread proves the point that receiving help for mental health has a negative stigma associated with it.

When we can't solve a technical problem, we often talk to others to unblock ourselves. This is 100% the exact same thing with emotional/mental problems. You need to talk to someone to help "unblock" you as well and allow you to go back to your full productivity.

Having said that, this coach definitely needs some sort of professional license. Having "Life Coach" on the resume isn't going to cut it.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#149
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The mind is just avoiding making any connections relevant to the work. This part is insane. But it doesn’t only happen when burned out. It happens to me when I get asked to do something that I do not believe in. I say yes, because you know, my boss is asking me to do it. But when I actually start on it my brain just completely shuts down. Like, is it trying to prevent me from seeming efficient at things I absolutel…

I assume yes. I've had similar problems, but over time I've learned not to separate solutions into "good" and "bad", but place them on a spectrum of "goodness" from my perspective. That way, it's easier to accept that somebody just wants a not-so-good solution and do it.

This is generally administrative tasks that nobody will ever look at again in the future.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#150
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When the US grows up from its individual first, frontier moxie, pissing context it could have it too. IMHO, this is not what is wrong with the system in the US. The problem is that the consumer of healthcare is doubly removed from the price. First by the insurance company using the doctors. Second by one's workplace paying for the insurance. Is it any wonder that prices keep going up under such a scheme?

The real problem is that the public option got replaced with marketplaces and employer-provided insurance got enshrined in the law. If we Americans were serious about having a free market we’d do the following: - ban employer-provided insurance entirely. - provide tax breaks for employers who provide insurance stipends to their employees - provide tax breaks for people to buy insurance on the marketplaces - make open…

Frankly I'm a little confused what you are in favor of. On the one hand you seen to want a public option while on the other hand you seen to be in favor of a free market.
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