Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Surviving Burnout (2015)

lifeofaudrey.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 171 posts

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#31

Post by slushh »

kerkeslager wrote: post #22
slushh wrote: post #19

Why isn't there a known company with a healthy structure that is the place of recovery for burned out developers? 'we can build it together' - why is that not happening? >Structural problems require structural solutions. Healthy organizations, healthy people. >How can any of us get better if we can’t afford to extract ourselves from the environment that caused the harm? >When you’re finally in recovery, you’ll start…

It's companies that created this problem, and I'm skeptical that a company is going to be the solution to this problem.

Companies are an abstraction. The humans behind the company define the company.

How else could burned out developers organize to create a space for recovery?

*edit: to mention the elephant in the room: caring without control results in self-doubt. What does it mean for humans to be 'self'?

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#32

Post by surfsvammel »

I suffered burn out about 15 years ago. If you would have asked me back then, if I was feeling stress or was nearing burn out, I would have said no, not a chance. I was feeling great. If you however would have me take one of those self assessment tests, it would show all the red flags.

I guess what I am trying to say is this: don’t necessarily trust your own assessment of the situation. Keep your eyes out for the warning signals.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#33

Post by Falkon1313 »

solatic wrote: post #11

> Structural problems require structural solutions. Healthy organizations, healthy people. It's not the author's conclusion, but this is basically my fantasy ever since watching Billions with Wendy Rhoades's character. In that show, Wendy is a performance coach working for a hedge fund whose job is to emotionally pump up the people who work for the hedge fund. The hedge fund employs her because (leaving aside the soa…

>More companies should employ such coaches and schedule regular sessions for all their employees.

Yet another fluff meeting that detracts from getting stuff done, adds pressure to deadlines, and is just supposed to make us feel good like a 'pizza party'? To try to encourage us to ignore our families and stay up late working for the company's gain?

I haven't seen the show, but I'm a little cynical of the premise.

I once worked for a company that hired consultants for something like that, and mostly it just increased the already high turnover and burnout level. Maybe there were good intentions, but in practice it just added pressure, fuel to the fire.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#34

Post by jimnotgym »

scruple wrote: post #23
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most burnout-inducing environments I’ve worked in have all had one thing in common: They had a person or class of people that had wormed their way into being in control of everything while being responsible for very little. This left the rest of us to be responsible for the consequences of their decisions while having little to no input on the things we were held accountable for. The absolute worst company I work…

Completely spot on from my personal experience. FWIW, I have seen this in every startup I've joined.

Why do you think that is? Is it because the founders are inexperienced at running an organisation perhaps?

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#35

Post by [deleted] »

bruce511 wrote: post #8

>> caring about the results of our actions but having no meaningful control over those outcomes This really dies sum it up in a useful generic way. Ultimately the balance of this sentence will differ from context to context, but the equation ultimately has to balance. Put another way, if you care a lot, but have no agency, then ultimately you will be frustrated. If you care a lot, but have no resources, then again, y…

[deleted]

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#36

Post by mock-possum »

I keep reading about what burnout is, and what to do about it, and it’s striking how carried different people’s experiences with it, and what they think causes it, and what they’re doing about it, and whether that’s working or not.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#37

Post by PaulRobinson »

Falkon1313 wrote: post #33
solatic wrote: post #11

> Structural problems require structural solutions. Healthy organizations, healthy people. It's not the author's conclusion, but this is basically my fantasy ever since watching Billions with Wendy Rhoades's character. In that show, Wendy is a performance coach working for a hedge fund whose job is to emotionally pump up the people who work for the hedge fund. The hedge fund employs her because (leaving aside the soa…

>More companies should employ such coaches and schedule regular sessions for all their employees. Yet another fluff meeting that detracts from getting stuff done, adds pressure to deadlines, and is just supposed to make us feel good like a 'pizza party'? To try to encourage us to ignore our families and stay up late working for the company's gain? I haven't seen the show, but I'm a little cynical of the premise. I on…

The character portrayed is a trained therapist. Not a consultant, not a lifestyle coach (most of whom have little formal training and are there because they don’t know what else to do with their lives), but somebody who is there to figure out what you need to work through emotionally to succeed in your role.

I have a private therapist who deals with my personal, and sometimes work, issues. It has been a major contributor to me avoiding burnout through 4 of the roughest years in my career.

I don’t consider therapy to be fluff, and I’d see an employer investing in it as a good sign, not a “pizza party” type event.

My employer does try to invest in mental health awareness but it’s limited to discounts on meditation apps and internal docs on structuring your work a little better.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#38

Post by ornornor »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #21
bruce511 wrote: post #8

>> caring about the results of our actions but having no meaningful control over those outcomes This really dies sum it up in a useful generic way. Ultimately the balance of this sentence will differ from context to context, but the equation ultimately has to balance. Put another way, if you care a lot, but have no agency, then ultimately you will be frustrated. If you care a lot, but have no resources, then again, y…

The most burnout-inducing environments I’ve worked in have all had one thing in common: They had a person or class of people that had wormed their way into being in control of everything while being responsible for very little. This left the rest of us to be responsible for the consequences of their decisions while having little to no input on the things we were held accountable for. The absolute worst company I work…

This is pretty much everywhere I’ve worked at in my 10 years career so far.

I honestly don’t know what to do about it. It seems hopeless and I’ve been avoiding going back to work for the last 18 months. I also wonder if there is something wrong with me because everyone else seems to cope with it somehow and keep on working.

I’ve thought about starting my own business but it’s too much hard work which I don’t think I can pull off.

The idea of going back to employee work makes me feel like shit because I’ll end up in the same environment (since 99% of companies work this way) and I don’t want to go through yet another burnout.

Would love to hear about how others have overcome this.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#39

Post by slagorfotrest »

Throwaway

Ive been on leave from work due to severe burnout and even just reading this caused me to feel panic. It's this weird feeling where the back of my throat feels like it's closing, my head begins throbbing and my heart races. I know how seriously burnout can affect your life and I'm really glad the author found a way out. We need better options for dealing with burnout because having medical insurance tied to work is obviously suboptimal.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#40

Post by ornornor »

solatic wrote: post #11

> Structural problems require structural solutions. Healthy organizations, healthy people. It's not the author's conclusion, but this is basically my fantasy ever since watching Billions with Wendy Rhoades's character. In that show, Wendy is a performance coach working for a hedge fund whose job is to emotionally pump up the people who work for the hedge fund. The hedge fund employs her because (leaving aside the soa…

I had a more cynical understanding of her role. The hedge fund employs her to influence the workers to fulfill the company’s goals. Preferably while aligning these goals with the worker’s health/own goals but that’s not the priority.

Watching this show I kept thinking that I would never ever ever go to see the psychiatrist/psychologist who’s on my employer’s payroll… and I often wonder how these traders who are so smart can’t see the massive conflict of interest or potential for a “play” (as they call them in the show) on themselves from the information gathered.

Post reply on HN