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Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

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101–110 of 235 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#101
For that matter why don't PC's do something similar?

I started with the BASIC prompt in 1981. And I still feel some nostalgia for those times. I don't write "software" per se, but use programming as a problem solving tool. On the PC, when I'm creating stuff rather than consuming, I typically live inside a Jupyter notebook.

I need a keyboard and a screen. We haven't come up with a better coding interface.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#105
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's still tech out there that does, like the pinephone. It's going to be niche, but it exists

not saying they don't exist, but to penetrate that 1% market share to be relevant they have not. I did call out things like raspi and such as still viable for tinkering but not the same way that I was introduced to computers with the Apple II and later the 386/486DX revolution. Around Pentium II things got anti-tinker and ever since 2007 it's been pretty much a consumer-only market. Walled gardens and locked down OS'…

at least on x86 you're still able to install whatever operating system you want, even if only for legacy reasons

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#106
post #85

The answer is obvious - most people don’t want to do this. They want to text or call a friend, look up the weather or sports, stream some entertainment or read the news. They’re experts in their own domains and don’t have the time or inclination to learn programming. There’s some heavy condescension in this thread, claiming that not programming “keeps people stupid”. As if creating can only happen in an IDE and not i…

It is more than obvious if you look at the broad picture: computers on the 80s were sold to a few million people, most of them with, at least, high school degree and math inclinations (a.k.a. "nerds"). Smartphones, o.t.o.h. are sold to billions of people.

The scale is just immense and is a completely different audience.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#107
post #72

Because smartphones are designed to keep you stupid. Computer literacy means you are able to poke holes in their shitty abstractions. The industry does not want you programming or creating, the industry wants you to be consuming. Preferably with your credit card.

> The industry does not want you [...] creating Twitter, Instagram and TikTok would like to differ. User created content is still a major thing, even if we stopped calling it web 2.0. Most of that just happens in other domains than programming (though Roblox exists, so programming does happen too).

Not sure that's true considering all 3 of those platforms make their money through advertising. Like, yeah users are making content, but that's hardly the point.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The industry does not want you [...] creating Twitter, Instagram and TikTok would like to differ. User created content is still a major thing, even if we stopped calling it web 2.0. Most of that just happens in other domains than programming (though Roblox exists, so programming does happen too).

Not sure that's true considering all 3 of those platforms make their money through advertising. Like, yeah users are making content, but that's hardly the point.

They make their money selling ads against product that they are incapable of creating, because aren't CallMeKhris or Linus or whoever.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#109
Because most of the complexity of smartphones is hidden from the user.

Meanwhile in the 80s, you had to know some command line just to run a game. If you wanted free games, you had to hand copy the code from a book. Once you learned a little bit, you were either content and kept playing the games or you wanted to learn more about how the game and the computer works.

We don't have that same barrier to entry now. That's good and bad, but that's part of why computers and smartphones are so ubiquitous now.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#110
post #72

Because smartphones are designed to keep you stupid. Computer literacy means you are able to poke holes in their shitty abstractions. The industry does not want you programming or creating, the industry wants you to be consuming. Preferably with your credit card.

I do remember that Apple keynotes always bragged early about how many CCs they had on file.

Would rephrase as the desire to keep you dependent is a result of the control and cashflow they desire. But yeah, we called TV the idiot box for similar reasons.

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