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Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

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Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#61

There's nothing stopping you from downloading Android development tools, and programming away to your heart's content. And nothing stopping you from pushing your app to Google Play so all your friends can download it onto their phones. Probably the major reason why early 80's computers made basic so prominent is that there wasn't much else to do with them.

iOS is stopping me.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#62
Early 80s computers were meant for hobbyists and enthusiasts, people who liked to tinker with the fancy machine they just bought. A smartphone is, as others have pointed out, a consumption device with mass appeal. They have some of the same kinds of hardware, and do some of the same things, but they are intended for very different things in the end.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#63
post #17

In BASIC times there were dozens of incompatible platforms and they were competing on the available software. Programmers were very scarce (and you had to persuade them to write for your platform instead of other platforms). You couldn't expect to have most use-cases solved by the available code, so people were willing to code what they needed. 8-bit computer without BASIC was almost useless. Software was also very c…

This sounds backwards. There was no way a teen in a few weeks could write a commercial useful application, nevermind distributing it or be taken seriously. Now a days teens are.

There are more teens programming than ever and creating more things.

The pie is bigger. There might have been thousands or ten thousands of kids programming before now it's millions.

Programs don't take millions of man hours. I can point to many useful one man open source projects. Selling business software is as hard as ever and it's hard to get buyin without connections. Teens are not making those connections neither were teens in the 80s or 90s.

Back than ever computer type was a different platform. Your c64 basic program couldn't run on an Mac. Things were much harder to package for others to use.

Programming has less benefits now for teens

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#64
post #45
post #2

Early 80s computers were a niche market largely sold to people interested in computers and programming.

I disagree. The "killer app" of the Apple II was VisiCalc, a spreadsheet. That's why my dad bought a computer for his home office. Computers were also used in education: I was exposed to them in junior high.

I have an original VisiCalc copy for an Ace computer 1981.. beautiful leather manual.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#65
I would disagree. I wrote an app for a non profit I work with. Phones and tablets provide so many great sensors that my laptop doesn't.

The non profit hosts a race where the participants build their own cars. My app helps track the race cars. We use GPS, 3g, wifi, a touch screen, and a 12 hr battery to: track cars and send their location live to our website. This simply wasn't possible before tablets - amd it is really cheap with a cheap tablet.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#66

Because it's not in their best interest. Smartphone makers are big tech, big tech only wants you to learn their framework to be locked into using big tech for life. No one wants you to learn to think on your own. Learn Dashly(tm) for Pear Phone or don't program at all. The reality is the time for tinkering and stuff is over (for pc workloads, you can tinker all you like with hardware/agri/space/radio/nuclear open-sou…

there's still tech out there that does, like the pinephone. It's going to be niche, but it exists

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#68
With early computers they were made from people who enjoyed exploring the possibilities for people who liked that, combined with the fact that software, especially general purpose software was limited. Niche products for niche markets. Except from playing games there was little to do. If you wanted to use it for anything else you'd have to program your software yourself.

In the nineties computers hot Excel and similar, which took over basic tasks and people built their databases for their hobby or business, there ledgers, ... on top of that.

Today there is special software for most of those things and computers are mass market products, made by companies which want the user's to consume media (via iTunes, or YouTube ads etc.) and approachable for everybody. The product managers fear that just seeing a glimpse of a programmable interface drives people away and reduces the media consumption.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#69
There's no money in it, is why.

But it can be done to an extent. Grab a cheap external BT keyboard, a folding monitor stand, and Termux or a Scheme interpreter, or a BASIC interpreter (I haven't looked, but I assume they exist), and you're there.

I've done a lot of programming and writing on the phone that way.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#70
Some of them do. A lot of my programming skills come thanks to hacking on my Openmoko Neo Freerunner around 2008 when I was a teenager. A few years later I was hacking on (although definitely not as much) a Nokia N900, and these days hacking on a Librem 5 (which can even be connected to an external screen, keyboard and mouse and act as a regular GNU/Linux PC) is my job.

Both Android and iOS are designed to be locked-down consumer goods owned by the manufacturer and only used by you; they're not tools that encourage you to learn and tweak. You need to look elsewhere for that.

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