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Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

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Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#31
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you know how long people have being saying that?

There is a computer chronicles on archive.org where they say this. I don’t remember the year but early 80s I would say.

it was a rhetorical question.

actually, cobol was supposed to be easy for buisness people to create applications in a "natural language". so, considerably before the 80s, though there were other developments aimed at doing so then, all of which failed miserably.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#32
post #5

I'd argue that a mobile phone is not an adequate platform for coding. The touchscreen and keyboard layouts make it difficult to type needed symbols, distracting from the problem at hand. Coding requires deep thought, but phones are optimized for moving around rather than sitting in one place and thinking. As such, use cases like maps, calendars, communication and alarms get priority. The reason people buy a phone is…

> I'd argue that a mobile phone is not an adequate platform for coding.

Neither is a calculator.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#33
Right now phones are really only consumption devices. This is mostly an intentional limitation. I'm not sure if you've ever actually hooked up a keyboard to a phone, but even with a keyboard (usually bluetooth) a phone is still far less convenient than a simple laptop. Some keyboard commands work. Focus is very spotty, and often you have to touch the screen to interact with elements so you can actually use the keyboard. There seems to be no app switching, but perhaps I'm just missing the keyboard command. Your list of applications is limited to what's available in the app store, and much of it is questionable. I could go on, but phones are basically the TV replacement in a certain sense. The user gets what's provided to them, and creativity and control are kept at a minimum.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone was talking automation of business early 80s. Home computers were for gaming and programming, but PCs were meant for non programmers. Even some of the home computers were pushed for business or at least non tech users.

Sure but that market was just starting out in the early 80s, even gaming was more of something they could do not really something they were sold for, the cool kids had a 2600, geeks had computers.

Not in my town: sad kids had 2600 with expensive cartridges; cool kids had tapes they could copy to their mates. No one paid for games here.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#35
post #21

Probably because natural language will supercede progranming language soon: https://youtu.be/PgT8tPChbqc

do you know how long people have being saying that?

Is not natural language being superseded by specialized language in pretty much every specialized, competitive niche?

I mean, even with large language models, isn’t there a whole new area forming around “prompt engineering“?

Natural language is just very imprecise. It relies on shared context. It’s not even working, particularly well between humans if they don’t know each other well, as you can see in all forms of politics, and actually not even that well in many marriages. Often enough, in the end, you have to call in the specialists to figure out what was actually said, and what wasn’t… So that my bank account doesn’t rely on this technology, but on computer code and math, that’s not a step backwards, in my opinion, but a step forward.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#36
post #5

I'd argue that a mobile phone is not an adequate platform for coding. The touchscreen and keyboard layouts make it difficult to type needed symbols, distracting from the problem at hand. Coding requires deep thought, but phones are optimized for moving around rather than sitting in one place and thinking. As such, use cases like maps, calendars, communication and alarms get priority. The reason people buy a phone is…

I started programming on a Ti-89 calculator and I loved it and it made me want to continue on this path. Modern smartphones would be much better for programming than my old Ti: better performance, better screen, better programming language.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drag and drop ‘stuff’ is the worst on phones. You need screen space for it. It works on tablets, but on phones it’s mostly awful. I cannot think of an example where it is smooth and usable, especially on the move.

There is no reason to use drag and drop.

HyperCard does though?

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#38
IMHO a mobile handset's primary use case is availability to respond to (mobile telephony) messaging events; as a consequence, its power management domains are intentionally oriented toward short-duration events.

A tablet device, on the other hand, is more likely to possess a higher-capacity battery and be usable for content generation / long-form editing.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#40
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a computer chronicles on archive.org where they say this. I don’t remember the year but early 80s I would say.

it was a rhetorical question. actually, cobol was supposed to be easy for buisness people to create applications in a "natural language". so, considerably before the 80s, though there were other developments aimed at doing so then, all of which failed miserably.

I didn’t try to answer the question; I am agreeing with you and pointing out a concrete example that they said this already early 80s. Also it’s entertaining too (re)watch the computer chronicles.

LLMs will change a lot of this though.

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