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Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

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Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#11

Post by ofalkaed »

danuker wrote: post #5

I'd argue that a mobile phone is not an adequate platform for coding. The touchscreen and keyboard layouts make it difficult to type needed symbols, distracting from the problem at hand. Coding requires deep thought, but phones are optimized for moving around rather than sitting in one place and thinking. As such, use cases like maps, calendars, communication and alarms get priority. The reason people buy a phone is…

>I'd argue that a mobile phone is not an adequate platform for coding. The touchscreen and keyboard layouts make it difficult to type needed symbols, distracting from the problem at hand.

Something akin to hypercard could be made to work very well on a smartphone, or possibly a dataflow environment like PureData but more general purpose. But yeah, 99% of people just want to use their phone and development for phones is much simpler on a proper computer.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#12

Post by Ciantic »

In the 80s computer programming was done with the same device. With today's mobile phones, programming is done with another device, usually a laptop.

This is of course changing, as mobile phones gain more functions. However, for it to happen it needs a change in culture. Phones have been largely seen as consumption devices, and still, a lot of people aren't comfortable writing long pieces with them.

It also could be as simple as what priorities the executive class wants to give their devices. I could imagine an alternate world where Steve Wozniak still had influence at Apple and he could push their lineup towards more hackable.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#13

Post by nickdothutton »

When I got my first computer, a Z80 based system running BASIC from ROM and able to boot CP/M 2, it came with almost no software. If you wanted to make it do something, you got out the BASIC manual or the Z80 assembler. Since most professional software was way out of my price range, and shareware was had to come-by (2400bps modem + expensive calls), you really had to be a builder. I’m grateful I didn’t have to do any soldering though.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#14

Post by xaduha »

I'd say Raspberry Pi 400 could ignite a similar spark, I don't think you're comparing apples to apples here.

Smartphones are consumer devices. And a Raspberry Pi 400 is probably even more niche than 80s computers were in comparison.

In any case I don't think it's about the devices at all, there are just better things to do even for an introvert who doesn't go out much. Just different times.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#15

Post by onion2k »

I often wonder how many people actually did any programming on those computers. For a very long time I assumed loads of people did - I did, my brothers and Dad did, my friends did. There were listings in magazines and books. It seemed wildly popular. But looking back now, and having met far more people from that era than I knew in my small town at the time, hardly anyone says they did too. They had computers but they used them for gaming and nothing much else. I was in a bubble, living in place where a major employer was a tech company. What reality was like outside seems to explain why programming was so appealing - it made me a bit special and opened a lot of doors back in the 90s.

I suspect that, even now, including an IDE as a default app with a language compiler or interpreter would be a waste of space for most users. They wouldn't use it, and they'd complain about it taking up valuable photo and music storage.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#17

Post by ajuc »

In BASIC times there were dozens of incompatible platforms and they were competing on the available software. Programmers were very scarce (and you had to persuade them to write for your platform instead of other platforms).

You couldn't expect to have most use-cases solved by the available code, so people were willing to code what they needed. 8-bit computer without BASIC was almost useless.

Software was also very crude back then - it was possible for some teen to write a commercially useful piece of code in a few weeks - that code could then help you sell your hardware to other people.

Nowadays we have millions of programmers worldwide writing for only a few possible platforms and the low hanging fruits are long picked. Writing successful software today usually takes millions of man-hours. So hobbyists aren't that important.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#18

Post by anonzzzies »

ofalkaed wrote: post #11
danuker wrote: post #5

I'd argue that a mobile phone is not an adequate platform for coding. The touchscreen and keyboard layouts make it difficult to type needed symbols, distracting from the problem at hand. Coding requires deep thought, but phones are optimized for moving around rather than sitting in one place and thinking. As such, use cases like maps, calendars, communication and alarms get priority. The reason people buy a phone is…

>I'd argue that a mobile phone is not an adequate platform for coding. The touchscreen and keyboard layouts make it difficult to type needed symbols, distracting from the problem at hand. Something akin to hypercard could be made to work very well on a smartphone, or possibly a dataflow environment like PureData but more general purpose. But yeah, 99% of people just want to use their phone and development for phones…

Drag and drop ‘stuff’ is the worst on phones. You need screen space for it. It works on tablets, but on phones it’s mostly awful. I cannot think of an example where it is smooth and usable, especially on the move.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#19

Post by zabzonk »

ofalkaed wrote: post #2

Early 80s computers were a niche market largely sold to people interested in computers and programming.

in the early 80s, all branches of wh smith, the uk's largest newsagent chain, had computers on display and available to use (or misuse, in the case of small children) - they were broadly targetted consumer goods.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#20

Post by anonzzzies »

Ciantic wrote: post #12

In the 80s computer programming was done with the same device. With today's mobile phones, programming is done with another device, usually a laptop. This is of course changing, as mobile phones gain more functions. However, for it to happen it needs a change in culture. Phones have been largely seen as consumption devices, and still, a lot of people aren't comfortable writing long pieces with them. It also could be…

My phone is as powerful as my laptop. It’s limited by walled gardens and not enough research making them useful as production devices with such a limited screen size.
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