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European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

reuters.com

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Re: European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

#81

Post by bjornsing »

jacquesm wrote: post #60
whiplash451 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is literally 100X easier to launch an openai competitor than a spacex competitor. The latter requires massive upfront non-retrievable investment.

100X easier is probably true. That still doesn't make it easy in an absolute sense. Check out the founders of openai and see how many of them are from Europe. Then realize that they are in the United States for one reason only: access to money. No EU VC is going to be able to match the kind of funding that is available in the US, and the longer that situation persists the bigger the chance that there will never be a…

I think you overemphasize money. Money is part of it, but there’s also a cultural issue. Crab mentality is rampant and encoded in both social norms and legislation/ regulation.

Re: European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

#82

Post by bjornsing »

b3n wrote: post #73
numbers_guy wrote: post #24

Meanwhile, where are all the ChatGPT competitors of EU origin? I feel ashamed to live on this side of the Atlantic, sometimes.

> I feel ashamed to live on this side of the Atlantic, sometimes. Let's not forget that DeepMind is of EU origin, and they were one of the forces that kick started this whole AI renaissance.

But now they are not: the British were smart enough to jump off this sinking ship.

Re: European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

#83

Post by neximo64 »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #78
neximo64 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its too asymmetric for what would be a genuine mistake. Good legislation is fair. It actually makes big companies like facebook stronger as well and harder to compete for small ones. The easiest thing to do is actually just not offer services in the EU for a smaller company.

How so? Most of the rules only apply to companies of more than 250 employees or with large result and fines have always been applied with a lot of discernment. As usual on HN, I expect most people who complain about it to have absolutely no idea of what it actually is.

If you are selling to a large company it is a problem. Its not quite as simple as you're saying.

And quite frankly the law is also complicated as with all other EU laws such as the cookie law. The interpretations vary and are not strict and clear. I have never seen laws in other western countries always blamed on the lack of interpretation.

If I was still in the EU I would simply incorporate offshore and operate offshore, it is more convenient but ive left

Re: European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

#84

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

neximo64 wrote: post #83
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? Most of the rules only apply to companies of more than 250 employees or with large result and fines have always been applied with a lot of discernment. As usual on HN, I expect most people who complain about it to have absolutely no idea of what it actually is.

If you are selling to a large company it is a problem. Its not quite as simple as you're saying. And quite frankly the law is also complicated as with all other EU laws such as the cookie law. The interpretations vary and are not strict and clear. I have never seen laws in other western countries always blamed on the lack of interpretation. If I was still in the EU I would simply incorporate offshore and operate offs…

> If I was still in the EU I would simply incorporate offshore and operate offshore, it is more convenient but ive left

You would still have to follow GDPR.

> The interpretations vary and are not strict and clear. I have never seen laws in other western countries always blamed on the lack of interpretation.

It's the same with every law. That's basically how laws work. It's even worse in countries using common law as case law is a thing.

Re: European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

#85

Post by msm_ »

from wrote: post #50
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #28

The last time they came up with a regulation, we got that GDPR awfulness. Made zero impact on anything, just forced me to click multiple buttons before visiting a website.

Europeans have to register their address at all times with the government, need a passport to buy a SIM card, are prohibited from cash transactions above trivial amounts but at least they can contact the mandatory "data protection officer" and reject non-essential cookies!

Europe is not a single country. Nothing you said is true for every European country (or every EU country, if that's what you mean).

But (despite your confusion about the European identity) I must admit you have a point. I think there is a mentality difference - Americans (USAnians?) are OK with being tracked by corporations, but hate any kind of government power. In Europe it's usually the opposite.

Re: European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

#86

Post by riffraff »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #68
riffraff wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are multiple concerns, of varying validity, at least: * ChatGPT claims to be 13+ only, but does not actually check that * data got leaked across prompts, which is probably bad * OpenAI is not clear/upfront enough on what it does with your own input * ChatGPT manipulates, in some sense, personal information, but does not provide a way for those impacted to edit/delete it (which might be hard/impossible, but that…

> ChatGPT claims to be 13+ only, but does not actually check that Does anyone? It's not like we are IDing teenagers on the internet. > data got leaked across prompts, which is probably bad If prompts are being saved into the model, then that's pretty nearly equivalent. > OpenAI is not clear/upfront enough on what it does with your own input OK, now let's do something about it. I'm not sure how that involves making a…

the task of the task force is to understand what can and cannot be done, talk with OpenAI, and set some guidelines.

A possible outcome is that they find it is literally impossible to offer a service such as ChatGPT while respecting our laws on privacy, right-to-be-forgotten and so on.

A likely outcome is that OpenAI puts a bigger banner "YOUR DATA IS AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE AND SOLD TO THIRD PARTIES" and a "DELETE MY DATA" button that makes a best effort to scrub some info, like they do for hate speech, self harm etc.

This is the current outcome of the meetings between the italian privacy authority and OpenAI[0], for example.

[0] https://gpdp.it/home/docweb/-/docweb-display/docweb/9874751 in italian

Re: European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

#87

Post by neximo64 »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #84
neximo64 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are selling to a large company it is a problem. Its not quite as simple as you're saying. And quite frankly the law is also complicated as with all other EU laws such as the cookie law. The interpretations vary and are not strict and clear. I have never seen laws in other western countries always blamed on the lack of interpretation. If I was still in the EU I would simply incorporate offshore and operate offs…

> If I was still in the EU I would simply incorporate offshore and operate offshore, it is more convenient but ive left You would still have to follow GDPR. > The interpretations vary and are not strict and clear. I have never seen laws in other western countries always blamed on the lack of interpretation. It's the same with every law. That's basically how laws work. It's even worse in countries using common law as…

> It's the same with every law. That's basically how laws work. It's even worse in countries using common law as case law is a thing.

It really isn't. If it wasn't such a butcher's shop with GDPR i wouldn't be complaining as i am aligned with the intent. Also hey for someone who's lived in both I much prefer the common law or mixed ways of creating law as it requires precedent first instead of it being made on a whim.

Re: European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

#88

Post by 29athrowaway »

jacquesm wrote: post #74
29athrowaway wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The biggest data hoarders are alive and well in Europe. The fines are the cost of doing business.

So we are in agreement: more and larger fines.

For foreign companies that can pay them.

Re: European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

#89

Post by snowpid »

numbers_guy wrote: post #24

Meanwhile, where are all the ChatGPT competitors of EU origin? I feel ashamed to live on this side of the Atlantic, sometimes.

- Aleph Alpha creates LLMs for commercial usage - LAION (German organisation) published open assistant (though after your comment)

- Stable Diffusion was developed in Germany.

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