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Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

nytimes.com

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Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#341

Post by Llamamoe »

Akronymus wrote: post #291
Llamamoe wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like a lot of stuff fhsg "gods against left-wing beliefs" gets silenced primarily when it's a bad-faith argument in the first place, but yeah. I'd personally like more studies on e.g. factors associated with why some trans people on HRT get fatigue, and how to avoid it.

> I feel like a lot of stuff fhsg "gods against left-wing beliefs" gets silenced primarily when it's a bad-faith argument in the first place, but yeah. "How much of the recent rise in transgenderism can be attributed to people being more accepting vs how much is peer pressure" Such a study won't see the light of the day any time soon. Yet, I wouldn't classify it as bad faith, as kids/teens are VERY impressionable. (A…

Y'know... nobody ever cares that trans kids suffer from lack of treatment as hard as cis kids from being given it(a way less common situation than the reverse), nobody cares that kids are abused left and right in much more common ways, nobody cares that most people transitioning are adults. What people care about is fuel to put validity of trans people and their agency to question.

It's not so much that discordant views get silenced, it's that everyone is aware that in the current climate, almost anything can - and WILL - be used to fuel discrimination. Such a study being approved alone would be taken as proof that "even the left finally admits transgenderism is hurting children" by a LOT of people. Even the way you titled the hypothetical study is de facto begging the question.

I mean yeah, these things should be studied. But it's not as though we have no science. E.g. detransition- we know it's uncommon, and mostly due to external circumstances, not regret. In light of this, is proposing to study specifically whether kids are getting pressured into transition(instead of "factors leading to transition"), in disregard of the fact that we already know most benefit from and don't regret it, "bad faith"? Yeah. Kinda.

The science very much so supports the rationale and safety of transition, but everyone and their dog has that one anecdote, that one outlier news story that convincingly prove how dangerous giving people agency over their gender is, that one "but what about the kids!" concern.

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#342

Post by jjeaff »

latency-guy2 wrote: post #244
jjeaff wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether it's valid or not, authoring a book on a particular subject usually qualifies someone as an expert on a subject. Especially if it is on an esoteric and modern subject like online socializing.

I know of someone who published a book on Golang in 2010. The rating of that book is sitting in the 3s out of 5 stars last I checked 6 years ago. Is he an expert at Go? Not in my most humblest opinion, is the content of the book good? Also a no in my honest, must charitable view. How far did he get with showing people how to program with Go? About as far as you'd get in 2 hours on the golang docs even considering a v…

As I said, I don't necessarily think that writing a book is a valid criteria, but people that do so are often used as expert sources in journalism or even court cases. It's not like you can get someone who has a phd in 4chan to interview.

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#345

Post by tptacek »

at_a_remove wrote: post #263
giraffe_lady wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it that you feel like you gain from being exposed to white nationalism? Being unfazed by horrors isn't a virtue, having scarred your soul like this isn't something to be proud of. You should be uncomfortable talking to a nazi! You should be more than uncomfortable!

[flagged]

No. You can substitute "Black" for "white", because Black is a specific ethnicity, the one the United States created when it kidnapped millions of people from African and forcibly stripped them of their heritage and culture, and subsequently shared the defining experiences of Black culture, including Jim Crow and forcible segregation, which, along with being crimes against humanity, also helped fuse a distinct cultural identity. Saying "It's OK to be Black" is like saying "It's OK to be Polish" or "It's OK to be Irish", which are things you can absolutely say. Part of the legacy of slavery is that for a large number of Black people, it's difficult to declare an affiliation with their origins in Africa: we took their ethnicity from them in a way nobody took my ancestors Irishness.

It's not a privilege Black people get; it's perfectly linguistically coherent.

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#346

Post by uni_rule »

baryphonic wrote: post #247

Notwithstanding the New York Times calling 4chan far-right and blatantly editorializing (seriously, if this is a news piece, why is there commentary about Discord's moderation policy?), I am most interested in whether the leaks are true. Has the White House been grossly over-representing Ukraine's chances? Will Ukraine be unable to protect their airspace after late May?

Well 4chan sure as hell isn't full of Marxist college students quoting theory at each other nor is it milquetoast CNN-style liberals. It is predominantly right wing (in an edgy 7th grader sort of way) to the point of needing kill files to be legible like the old days of Usenet.

At the very least it's not more anarchist leaning like it was 15 years ago.

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#347

Post by Llamamoe »

somedude895 wrote: post #302
Akronymus wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like a lot of stuff fhsg "gods against left-wing beliefs" gets silenced primarily when it's a bad-faith argument in the first place, but yeah. "How much of the recent rise in transgenderism can be attributed to people being more accepting vs how much is peer pressure" Such a study won't see the light of the day any time soon. Yet, I wouldn't classify it as bad faith, as kids/teens are VERY impressionable. (A…

That's a great example. Another one is the question, whether gender dysphoria results from mental illness, or the other way around. The orthodoxy will say that the discrimination that trans people face is the reason for the prevalence of mental illness among them. We won't find out anytime soon, since it's a belief that is held sacred among the very people studying the topic, and at the same time there's a push to tr…

> Another one is the question, whether gender dysphoria results from mental illness, or the other way around.

[We have the data](https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1909367116), being trans is identifiable as early as 2-3yo, from the moment gender differences in behavior become apparent, long before any capacity to comprehend and adhere to complex expectations of boogeyman "transtrender parents".

You want to be treated as arguing in good faith, but fail to research the subject, propose questions that assume the conclusion, bring up vague anecdotes contrary to the statistics you're unwilling to consider, and disregard the fact that transgender children suffer from lack of treatment just as hard as wrongly treated cisgender children.

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#348

Post by bengal_basement »

Llamamoe wrote: post #347
somedude895 wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a great example. Another one is the question, whether gender dysphoria results from mental illness, or the other way around. The orthodoxy will say that the discrimination that trans people face is the reason for the prevalence of mental illness among them. We won't find out anytime soon, since it's a belief that is held sacred among the very people studying the topic, and at the same time there's a push to tr…

> Another one is the question, whether gender dysphoria results from mental illness, or the other way around. [We have the data]( https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1909367116 ), being trans is identifiable as early as 2-3yo, from the moment gender differences in behavior become apparent, long before any capacity to comprehend and adhere to complex expectations of boogeyman "transtrender parents". You want to be t…

[flagged]

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#349

Post by pnt12 »

alternatetwo wrote: post #268
YarickR2 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please define alt right, in your own words. It seems everyone claiming 4chan is right, far right, or alt right, means something rather different

Alt right is a progranda term by neo nazis for neo nazis, so they don't sound like actual neo nazis. Stop using the term alt right. Alt right means neo nazi. Nothing else.

Not every racist is a neo nazi, not every leftist is a stalinist.

Lumping them together is a cheap tactic to aggravate people, which I think it's dishonest and not very effective.

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