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Animal Sex Determination Is Weirder Than You Think

nautil.us

41–50 of 182 posts

Re: Animal Sex Determination Is Weirder Than You Think

#41
post #23
post #9

Biologists use the word “female” to describe organs or organisms that produce eggs, and “male” for those that produce sperm; animals do not have socially constructed genders. Sad times when such disclaimers are necessary.

> animals do not have socially constructed genders Do people do?

Yes

Re: Animal Sex Determination Is Weirder Than You Think

#42
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ie why don't animals need them Is there a reason to believe it doesn't exists in animals as well? Homosexuality is common in many species, are some individual animals in those species more prone to homosexual "relationships" than others? If so, maybe those animals are feeling some sort of expression by their gender identity based on their preference. I'm guessing gender identities serve the same purpose as individu…

I thought gender and sexuality are totally independent?

Depends on when you had that thought

https://www.websters1913.com/words/Gender

Re: Animal Sex Determination Is Weirder Than You Think

#43
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're describing a difference in sex vs gender. From the linked article: > Gender [...] involves a set of behaviors and norms that shape how men and women act, prescribe how they ought to be, and specify what it means to be a man or a woman > ... Unlike in any other animal, gendered behavior in humans is wildly different across cultures Sex needs a definition too: > Sex appeared to be purely, simply genetic—until 1…

The assertion that gender is “socially constructed” does merit the anti-woke talking point. Mammals have social roles based on biological sex: female penguins do one thing, male penguins do a different thing. Gender in humans isn’t fundamentally different. Like everything else, humans have layered social and cultural constructs on top of sex and gender. For example, cultures have different ways of marking the transit…

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Re: Animal Sex Determination Is Weirder Than You Think

#44
post #9

Biologists use the word “female” to describe organs or organisms that produce eggs, and “male” for those that produce sperm; animals do not have socially constructed genders. Sad times when such disclaimers are necessary.

That gender and sex overlap yet aren't identical is a relatively recent scientific discovery that many people haven't yet learned. It's helpful, therefore, to mention gender when discussing the related subject of sex.

Re: Animal Sex Determination Is Weirder Than You Think

#45
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're describing a difference in sex vs gender. From the linked article: > Gender [...] involves a set of behaviors and norms that shape how men and women act, prescribe how they ought to be, and specify what it means to be a man or a woman > ... Unlike in any other animal, gendered behavior in humans is wildly different across cultures Sex needs a definition too: > Sex appeared to be purely, simply genetic—until 1…

The assertion that gender is “socially constructed” does merit the anti-woke talking point. Mammals have social roles based on biological sex: female penguins do one thing, male penguins do a different thing. Gender in humans isn’t fundamentally different. Like everything else, humans have layered social and cultural constructs on top of sex and gender. For example, cultures have different ways of marking the transit…

> Gender in humans isn’t fundamentally different.

It is fundamentally different.

The range of behaviors that Humans have is fundamentally far, far more broad than animals, because we are much more intelligent creatures. Example from a few thousand years ago: Farming, Cooking food. More recent examples: Fixing cars, doing taxes. Most of what Humans spend their time doing these days are things that animals don't do in nature.

Human cultures like to ascribe gender roles to most of these things, but in reality most of what people do doesn't have any implicit gender role associated with it, since it's pretty far removed from biological functions at this point.

Even in nature, the things people and animals do doesn't always neatly align with gender roles. For example, child rearing or even bearing live young is sometimes done by the male, even though it's usually a female gender role.

What's different between us and animals (as is usually the case) is our big thinky brains, and the things which follow on from that.

Re: Animal Sex Determination Is Weirder Than You Think

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back when I was taught Biology in school, “female“ meant “having the larger gamete”.

Huh, is this actually universal? I'd have guessed there'd be at least one or two exceptions.

There are no exceptions to it if you make it the definition. Which is what the comment of BuyMyBitcoins says was taught to them.

Re: Animal Sex Determination Is Weirder Than You Think

#47
post #11

"(a system that’s distinct from our diverse gender identities)" Please don't take this the wrong way, this is a genuine question. Is there an explaination somewhere of what purpose gender identities serve and what benefits that provides (ie why don't animals need them)? Aside from reproduction, I don't see how gender would really influence anything.

Why does this article even mention gender?

It's completely unrelated to the topic at hand. Every mention of it is in some parenthetical jammed into the article with no logical flow.

Re: Animal Sex Determination Is Weirder Than You Think

#48

Throughout the history of biology, psychology, cognitive science, and neurosciences, there has been a constant back and forth between those who would exaggerate sex differences, and those who would understate sex-differences as purely social constructs with no affect on biology other than what is caused via experienced socializations. The truth is more complicated than any of those extremes. Important differences in…

FYI, I am a scientist that studies sex and gender in autism.

You're a quack who's using very rare anomalies in sex to falsely conflate sex and gender. You are doing harm.

Re: Animal Sex Determination Is Weirder Than You Think

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're describing a difference in sex vs gender. From the linked article: > Gender [...] involves a set of behaviors and norms that shape how men and women act, prescribe how they ought to be, and specify what it means to be a man or a woman > ... Unlike in any other animal, gendered behavior in humans is wildly different across cultures Sex needs a definition too: > Sex appeared to be purely, simply genetic—until 1…

I hear this reasoning often but never see it being applied in practice. For starters why are single sex sports and single sex changing rooms so controversial? Similarly if gender and sex are entirely distinct. Does that not mean that the trans community is the strongest supporter of traditional gender roles? Afterall what does it mean to change gender if differing social attitudes to gender ought be extinguished?

Locker rooms? You see these exact talking points copy and pasted a lot, do they relate to this specific article?

Re: Animal Sex Determination Is Weirder Than You Think

#50
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, is this actually universal? I'd have guessed there'd be at least one or two exceptions.

There are no exceptions to it if you make it the definition. Which is what the comment of BuyMyBitcoins says was taught to them.

Yep, fair enough, if it's a strict definition. You could potentially then have weird edge cases in the other direction, though; if the same sex chromosome layout in related species X and Y leads to different sexes due to the size of the gametes (especially if the size of the gametes was pretty similar to start with), that seems very odd/confusing.
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