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Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

mathalicious.com

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Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#91
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know you're better at your job now than 17 years ago? Does an effective teacher evaluation system exist in your country that you can use as a reference to validate your claim?

In the same way that a bad parent who becomes a better parent knows they are now a better parent. Some things are not quantifiable. I know of no effective national evaluation system for parenting and yet some parents are good parents. I know that I am a better teacher now than when I first started. I'm not claiming to be a good teacher. I'm just claiming to be a better one. It's common for a practitioner to get bette…

I know that I am a better teacher now than when I first started.

Sure, you know that you're a better teacher than when you started. But can you prove it? What can you do that a fresh-out-of-college teacher can't? What can you do better? How can you show that you do your job better?

As a programmer, I have a similar problem. But I don't just throw up my hands and say, "Well, some things just can't be quantified." Instead, I try to quantify them. I try to show how my estimation skills have gotten better. I try to show how my code now has fewer bugs and requires less maintenance effort.

As a teacher, what can you show me to distinguish you from a wet-behind-the-ears graduate?

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#93
post #86
post #13

To address our challenges, we need to do what every other successful country has done: invest in professional development; give teachers more time to collaborate; and provide them with resources that help them not only meet the learning standards, but exceed them. You could have copy/pasted that conclusion without altering a word from the debate about every other educational reform: school choice/vouchers, NCLB, high…

This is an incredibly depressing post. The discussion over educational reform has devolved into one side begging for teachers to stop being treated like cattle and the other saying, essentially, "if you cared about the kids, you'd be happy being treated like cattle." Doctors go through significantly more schooling and receive significantly more professional development — yet they are still perceived with respect as p…

Give it time. With the direction healthcare costs are going it's just a matter of time before the hate enters the profession. Soon people will see doctors, nurses, and administrators for what they really are: rent-seekers gouging taxpayers for enormous amounts of money by erecting barriers to entry, keeping accountability to a minimum, and charging endless procedures to the bottomless pits that are medicare and medicaid.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#94

Where Khan Academy has the distinct advantage to me is not in its content or teaching style (both of which seem good) but in the ability for the student who does not grasp the subject to be able to replay the lesson over and over without fear of holding up the class or causing the teacher inconvenience thereby allowing the students who do understand the ability to move on to the next subject without having to "read a…

This. Right here. Upvote it now. I work in a small start-up making educational software, and this is exactly the kind of thing I want to achieve. A couple of months back I read John Holt's famous book 'Why Children Fail' which had a profound effect on me and my work. What he says, and what I agree with due to my own experience and observations is that school can be a fundamentally scary experience for children. Self-…

I used to tutor math at a community college. I did mostly the basics: lots of algebra, very occasionally a little calculus. I learned two things.

First, it was usually the assumed knowledge that got them. They'd mess up at calculus because of algebra; or get algebra wrong because they couldn't add. When you don't know the basics, you get the wrong answer even when you do all the new stuff right. The whole thing starts to seem futile, like climbing a mountain of sand.

Second, just as above. Most of my students had no idea that math, like weightlifting, is supposed to hurt a bit. They thought that heavy, stretching sensation you get when you learn new concepts meant they were stupid, that they couldn't do math. They didn't realize that every feels that, if only briefly. If you're in the bottom third of the distribution, and a third of people are, you never get to the other side of that feeling before the class moves on.

The answer isn't magic teachers. It's for kids to learn that learning is possible. You do that with practice, and feedback, until they get it right.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#95
Some of the comments here indicate that the Khan Academy videos also include instruction on the meaning behind the math as opposed to the idea that it's just teaching rote memorization of procedures and applications without context. As a student who has recently taken math methods courses some of the arguments against this approach is the idea that students should be developing their understanding of the underlying meanings on their own. One resource I've used recently classifies activities into four areas: memorization, procedures without connections, procedures with connections, and doing mathematics. The first two are considering as having lower-level demands and the last two are higher-level demands[1]. Thus it is possible that the Khan Academy videos are actually a great resource for students as there are no guarantees that we're within the bounds of the lower-level demands tasks, and this seems to be possible considering the comments I've read and some of the sections of video that I've watched.

In contrast I've also looked at one of the mathalicious.com lessons[2] which if approached correctly can also fall within the bounds of the higher-level demands tasks. However, that is something that close attention must be paid to. We can always modify activities such that the level of cognitive demand is either increased or reduced. More importantly though I feel as though the mathalicious lessons have an opportunity to further make connections by having students do mathematics that is practical. The one lesson I examined seemed to not do this, which is disappointing. Granted I don't have my BS in mathematics nor my teaching certification yet as I'm in my final semester but I don't think this lesson represents any kind of activity that is realistic. I remember reading an article by IIRC Richard Feynman about analyzing textbooks for use in classrooms in California. This was one of the arguments he presented as well; example activities we have students do to learn the underlying mathematical concepts should be realistic and not contrived examples.

Overall, the key here is that students should be doing the mathematical work. Obviously I have a vested interest in the subject as I'm in the classroom for the majority of my week actually working with students to teach and help them learn math. Is it possible that Khan Academy can be ineffective if used incorrectly? Absolutely. But I feel the same can be said of the mathalicious lessons. If someone isn't there to correctly use the resources they can have a smaller impact than originally intended.

[1] 5 Practices for Orchestrating Productive Mathematics Discussions, Smith & Stein. NCTM.

[2] http://www.mathalicious.com/lesson/can-music-kill-you/

N.B. I'm also a little concerned with one of the sections in the Lesson Guide that I read through. It states the following:

Before we find the equation of the line, we want to focus on the meaning of slope. A helpful shorthand for slope is “y per x,” which is how we’ll measure slope (i.e. its units). In this case slope will be measured in “heart beats per music beat,” and will tell us what happens to Billy Jean’s heart rate when she increases the music tempo by one [beat]. By focusing on this real-­‐world meaning, we can avoid tricks like “rise over run.”

At first glance it seems to me that "y per x" is a trick too, which they're calling out "rise over run" for being. I feel that "rise over run" is closer to the mathematical definition that is presented in most textbooks which refers to the "difference in y over the difference in x" or "vertical change over horizontal change". While using "y per x" allows them to then refer to "heart beats per music beat" in this context, that doesn't get at the heart of the idea that it's really the ratio of the change in heart beats compared to the change in music beats.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#96

I wish I knew more about the person writing it, its hard to contextualize their opinions as it stands currently.

Happy to tell you more. My name is Karim. I'm the founder of Mathalicious and the author of the blog post. I'm also a former classroom teacher and middle school math coach, where I worked with other teachers to help improve instruction by focusing on 1) conceptual understanding, and 2) relevance.

It seems like the anti-post comments fall in three categories:

1. Khan is great 2. Mathalicious is just jealous 3. The author of the post is part of the establishment and should be ignored

Let's take those one at a time.

First, Khan is great for what it is. It's a wonderful resource for homework help, for review, for a refresher, etc., and I said as much in the post. However, Khan Academy is not great pedagogically. It presents math as a series of steps, is entirely traditional, does not address conceptual understanding, and should not be the first touch-point for students learning math. Unfortunately, this is exactly what's happening in any number of schools across the country, and the worry --- and it's not just mine, but many in the education community --- is that it will merely perpetuate the problem.

Second, the "you're just jealous because Khan is eating your lunch" critique is a bit silly. Mathalicious provides lessons to classroom teachers, not direct instruction to students. If Khan Academy were effective at teaching students in a meaningful way on the front end, this would actually be good for us. Our lessons focus mostly on applications of mathematics, and in this sense are the yin to the yang. Regardless, the critique that Khan's style of instruction is ineffective and has been proven so has nothing to do with something so subjective as jealousy. It's objective fact, something I'd imagine would resonate with computer scientists. That said, would I like it if Mathalicious had Khan's millions? Absolutely. Not only would it allow me to have an income --- something I've foregone for over two years --- but it would more importantly allow Mathalicious to make its lessons free to teachers, something that we simply cannot afford to do. (Still, we do allow users to choose their own price, including $5/month: the price of a Starbucks coffee.)

Third, this issue of my being part of the "establishment" because I'm a teacher... As a teacher, I've seen first-hand how broken the system is. I've taught next to people who knew very little math, and that frustrates nobody more than the teachers who have to pick up their slack. Either way, the "change must come from outside of the system" argument suggests that teachers therefore have no role to play in education reform. If there's anyone who actually believes this, please raise your hand.

In the end, here's my argument in a nutshell:

1. We have a math crisis caused by ineffective teaching and an emphasis on rote skills 2. This style of teaching has been demonstrated by research not to work 3. Khan's style of teaching is the same 4. Cash-strapped schools & districts are beginning to adopt Khan Academy as a core tool 5. This won't work and risks perpetuating the problem 6. We know from observing other countries that, to solve the problem, we must invest in professional development and effective curriculum 7. In part because Khan is free, and in part because of a sycophantic media narrative, we are less likely to do this so long as we think Khan Academy is the solution to the problem

So, what part of that do people disagree with?

Karim

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#97
post #77
post #31

(Obviously biased member of KA here.) "Khan Academy and its donors may preclude better products from coming along" I just don't understand this. KA, Udacity, Coursera, Codecademy, MITx, teachontablo.com, this list goes on. I don't see how KA has done anything but prove the possibility of traction. When professors like Thrun and Norvig and investors like Paul Graham, Fred Wilson, and Peter Thiel are excited about the…

Expect haters when you're doing something disruptive. The term 'disruptive' itself implies you're pissing someone off. I'm sure Henry Ford had people who thought cars were a bad idea. Carry on.

I don't mean to quibble, but you should really replace Henry Ford with Karl Benz. By the time Henry Ford got into the act, cars had already proven their usefulness. Ford's innovation was making cars cheap enough for the average person to afford.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#98
post #85
post #61

Khan Academy provides a low-overhead, on-demand learning environment. The format is good, but it's not novel, and the format isn't the point . Khan Academy allows me, with no overhead whatsoever, to pick (or refresh a skill), whenever I want. If my math skills aren't up to snuff for a hobby project I'm working on, Khan Academy is there. If I can't remember how a transistor works ... Khan Academy has me covered. Compa…

I think you're overstating the friction. After I graduated, I wanted to learn Mandarin. I signed up for a course at the University of Minnesota through the Continuing Education department. I didn't have to apply, it was really trivial. I took one course, and they were happy to let me do so.

That's usually the case for most Humanities disciplines (history, languages, literature etc), because their overheads are really low and there is an abundance of teaching professionals compared to actual audiences.

The opposite is true for "hard" sciences like chemistry, engineering or CS, where expensive laboratory equipment is necessary and where teaching resources are scarce (due to higher private-sector demand). There, courses are expensive, demanding and small in number, so they are usually inaccessible to the layman.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#99
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been in the classroom for 17 years in higher education. I'm much better at my job now than I was 17 years ago. I've learned a lot in the intervening 17 years. Wisdom and experience count for something and imparting this onto other is useful. Professional development can be helpful and to suggest that the goal is simply to employ teachers is ignorant and naive. I've never met a single teacher who has proposed an innov…

How do you know you're better at your job now than 17 years ago? Does an effective teacher evaluation system exist in your country that you can use as a reference to validate your claim?

Are you suggesting that if they're in the United States the system is not effective and thus can't be used as evidence?

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the same way that a bad parent who becomes a better parent knows they are now a better parent. Some things are not quantifiable. I know of no effective national evaluation system for parenting and yet some parents are good parents. I know that I am a better teacher now than when I first started. I'm not claiming to be a good teacher. I'm just claiming to be a better one. It's common for a practitioner to get bette…

I know that I am a better teacher now than when I first started. Sure, you know that you're a better teacher than when you started. But can you prove it? What can you do that a fresh-out-of-college teacher can't? What can you do better? How can you show that you do your job better? As a programmer, I have a similar problem. But I don't just throw up my hands and say, "Well, some things just can't be quantified." Inst…

Patio11 made a claim that calls for reform, school choice, testing, etc. all had as their goal employment of teachers and that education of students was a by-product. Specifically he/she said this in regard to professional development.

I responded to the professional development aspect of Patio11's comment. My point being that seasoned professionals do have wisdom to impart on less experienced colleagues. I used myself as an example but the point made is clear (I think).

Even if I really am not a better teacher now than I was 17 years ago the point is still true. Well, in order for the point not to be true one has to believe that there is no wisdom gained from experience is teaching an that this is universally true. I know of no profession in which practitioners do not generally get better over time. Indeed,there is no profession in which no practitioner gets better over time.

So what is the point of requesting that I prove that I really have gotten better over time? It's not germane to my point unless one believes that no one ever gets better over time in teaching.

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