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Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

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Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#71

Post by ISeemToBeAVerb »

This doesn't have to be an either/or conversation about the relative importance of teachers vs technology.

Teachers will always be needed and valued (above everything else, someone has to create content for technology to disseminate).

The thing is, not all teachers are created equal. I'm sure we can all recall certain teachers that were obviously not concerned for the betterment of their students. Hell, some are downright hostile. Then, there are those teachers who really do care- the ones you remember for life.

Likewise, technology isn't created equal. There are some downright terrible online learning courses.

The difference between now and a few years ago, is that the education system is finally seeing the value in online technologies to aid in the classroom.

Ideally, you have a synergistic effect. A good teacher aided by a curriculum we can actually track and measure on an individual scale.

The students are happy because they can learn at their own pace (or not- you can't win them all over), and the teachers are freed from having a one-size-fits-all solution to a problem that requires a more nuanced approach.

What about this is negative? Are jobs at risk? Probably. They have been for a while now, but not because of technology. Our public schools are just plain underfunded.

In the end, technology will actually create MORE jobs- as I said, someone has to design and teach the online courses too.

Khan Academy isn't designed to replace teachers, it's designed to aid them in the classroom and free up the time and resources to provide that QUALITY education we all desire so badly for our children.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#72

Post by hsmyers »

Are we sure that this isn't the same guy who just attacked Amazon? His arguments are equally off point and equally worthless. And that is without taking into account that the arguments come from the side that is losing! I no more think that Khan Academy has a lock on 'the one true way' than any other approach to the problem of education. What I do think is that for what ever reason the approach seems to be working and that is a great deal more than than can be said for the system currently in place. I will also point out the number of top end colleges that are beginning to think outside of the box in ways that greatly resemble Khan's---something that I don't think is an accident...

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#73

Post by erikpukinskis »

I totally with the author's suggestion that we invest more in teachers. It's incredibly important.

But I hate, HATE, arguments of this form:

"[proponents] have been making similar claims for years, yet [outcomes] are as bad as ever"

It's absolutely just as vapid as "It will be different this time", yet I hear people make this argument over and over.

Things happen until they don't. Sometimes it's a tiny event that precipitates the change, sometimes it's a massive event, and sometimes it's the accrual of thousands of chancy occurences. Past performance is a useful indicator of future performance only if aggregate statistics are your sole concern. If you care about individual situations, like whether a single property of classrooms will change in response to a single new technology, past outcomes in similar situations tells you very little.

And yes, if someone tells you "things will be different solely because of X", where X is something that's happened dozens of times before, they are full of shit.

But anyone who tells you "things will be the same because X happened before too" is just as misguided.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#74

Post by wanderful »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #40

For many of us teachers, this is somewhat disconcerting. Gamification is fine when students are trying to save Zelda, but it’s more problematic when math becomes an obstacle, and eighth grade just another “level.” The author is delusional. That's exactly what 8th, or any other grade, is. Get enough points, proceed to the next grade. Score high enough on the leader board, proceed to the college you want.

And not to mention, kids love games! If fun and play makes things more engaging, and we learn better when engaged, why not make school more fun?

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#75

Post by yequalsx »

patio11 wrote: post #13

To address our challenges, we need to do what every other successful country has done: invest in professional development; give teachers more time to collaborate; and provide them with resources that help them not only meet the learning standards, but exceed them. You could have copy/pasted that conclusion without altering a word from the debate about every other educational reform: school choice/vouchers, NCLB, high…

Been in the classroom for 17 years in higher education. I'm much better at my job now than I was 17 years ago. I've learned a lot in the intervening 17 years. Wisdom and experience count for something and imparting this onto other is useful.

Professional development can be helpful and to suggest that the goal is simply to employ teachers is ignorant and naive. I've never met a single teacher who has proposed an innovation with the goal of employing teachers. There are people who do care about teaching and some of those people are teachers and educational leaders. It does not appear to me that your cynicism is rooted in reality.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#76

Post by wizzard »

DennisP wrote: post #22

The one concrete criticism I could see in the article (aside from vague handwaving about "pedagogical underpinnings") was about providing a step-by-step series of instructions for solving a problem without real understanding. But Khan doesn't actually do that. In my experience, he's very good at emphasizing why something works. He encourages people to remember the "why" well enough to work out the actual formulas for…

Personally I don't understand how one would go about teaching math without using step-by-step instructions, especially considering his example of teaching slope. He never says what would be a better way to teach slope than the textbook/Khan methods, he just claims (without submitting any proof) that those methods are completely ineffective. Well, it seems to be working for KA students, and it seems to be working for other countries.

I agree with pinchyfingers: Students are getting worse at math because they don't want to put the work in. And I don't think it should necessarily be the educator's burden to make each individual math topic more fun and exciting to try and trick students into using their brains. We need to find a way to get kids motivated about learning in general again.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#77

Post by DevX101 »

kamens wrote: post #31

(Obviously biased member of KA here.) "Khan Academy and its donors may preclude better products from coming along" I just don't understand this. KA, Udacity, Coursera, Codecademy, MITx, teachontablo.com, this list goes on. I don't see how KA has done anything but prove the possibility of traction. When professors like Thrun and Norvig and investors like Paul Graham, Fred Wilson, and Peter Thiel are excited about the…

Expect haters when you're doing something disruptive. The term 'disruptive' itself implies you're pissing someone off.

I'm sure Henry Ford had people who thought cars were a bad idea.

Carry on.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#78

Post by Clanan »

Osmose wrote: post #23

I think the best rebuttal to this article would be Sal's TED talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM95HHI4gLk In particular, he doesn't present the Khan Academy as a full replacement for primary education, but as an enhancement. In the second half of the video, he illustrates the teacher as maximizing the amount of useful interaction between themselves and the students. Instead of spending class time lecturing and pr…

This is a good point that touches on what seems like a communication disconnect. While Khan advocates using it as an enhancement, many in education think it's more than that and use it accordingly (disclaimer: based on my experience, totally anecdotal). Perhaps decision-makers are viewing Khan Academy as THE SOLUTION, which is what the author takes issue with.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#79

Post by arijo »

yequalsx wrote: post #75
patio11 wrote: post #13

To address our challenges, we need to do what every other successful country has done: invest in professional development; give teachers more time to collaborate; and provide them with resources that help them not only meet the learning standards, but exceed them. You could have copy/pasted that conclusion without altering a word from the debate about every other educational reform: school choice/vouchers, NCLB, high…

Been in the classroom for 17 years in higher education. I'm much better at my job now than I was 17 years ago. I've learned a lot in the intervening 17 years. Wisdom and experience count for something and imparting this onto other is useful. Professional development can be helpful and to suggest that the goal is simply to employ teachers is ignorant and naive. I've never met a single teacher who has proposed an innov…

How do you know you're better at your job now than 17 years ago? Does an effective teacher evaluation system exist in your country that you can use as a reference to validate your claim?

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#80

Post by frasertimo »

swishercutter wrote: post #39

Where Khan Academy has the distinct advantage to me is not in its content or teaching style (both of which seem good) but in the ability for the student who does not grasp the subject to be able to replay the lesson over and over without fear of holding up the class or causing the teacher inconvenience thereby allowing the students who do understand the ability to move on to the next subject without having to "read a…

This. Right here. Upvote it now.

I work in a small start-up making educational software, and this is exactly the kind of thing I want to achieve.

A couple of months back I read John Holt's famous book 'Why Children Fail' which had a profound effect on me and my work. What he says, and what I agree with due to my own experience and observations is that school can be a fundamentally scary experience for children. Self-esteem is so central to learning, because how you react to failure and your own progress (or lack thereof) defines the way you learn. Kids who are afraid of looking stupid, of being compared to their peers, and of having to work hard without the promise of success are the ones who are branded as lazy, unimaginative, or just 'stupid', when in fact they are just afraid of trying hard.

The internet and self education offers an opportunity for kids to escape that fear, and to truly experience the joy of learning. I'm sure many HN readers will relate to my belief that the greatest joy of hard work is not when you appear smarter or harder working than others, but when you achieve something for yourself, or learn something new. Many programmers get to experience that joy all the time.

Holt became so disillusioned with the inability of schools to provide a comfortable and secure learning place for children that eventually he became an advocate for home schooling. I believe in schools' potential and what teachers have to offer, and my company's software is built accordingly, but we have reached a point where there is too much focus on comparing students; through frequent nation-wide testing, intense competition for prestigious colleges, and through insecure parents who push their children an unhealthy amount. To balance that, the schooling system has lost sight of the original reasons for its existence. The judgment-free zone of the internet and self directed learning is giving us a chance to undo the bad learning habits of our current students, and ensure that the next generation of students do not ever need to learn them.

The Khan academy is not about taking the power away from schools and administrators, it is about putting the emphasis back on why we have them in the first place; which is because for all the good of self education, the greatest help you can give a student is a teacher who understands them and the way they learn.

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