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Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

mathalicious.com

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Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#51
Parents need to understand that KA is not a substitute for the teaching paradigm, but rather introduces a great tool for self-enrichment - as the article suggests, a "supplement" to homework and education, KA is great. But the "education" itself is a varied and dynamic system that cannot completely rely on a child to be self-motivated. Few 7 year olds are self-motivated to master math, and gamification is just another arrow in the quiver, but not the panacea. Learning is IMO at least a 2 step process, requiring participation beyond simply multiple choice and listening, it most importantly requires exploration and deep problem solving skills. For example, being assigned a math word problem where the child must read, re-read and attempt to find the answer using at least 30 minutes of analysis before realizing the true nature of the word problem. That 30 minute process is an important mental exercise that cannot be circumvented. KA is a great way to quickly understand a concept, but true mastery requires application, and having a teacher present to gently guide without revealing the answer is an art.

Being a parent that closely monitors his child's learning process, I'm very careful to never give my child the answer, but just enough hints to keep him from being frustrated - ultimately, HE must figure it out, never me. KA is a great way for my son to learn about a subject, but the next stage is when I take him away from KA and start applying those concepts to real life problems.

Parents need to understand this 2 step process.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#52
I agree that KA is a wonderful site, but not a panacea.

What I miss from the article is to present the solution for it.

My girlfriend is a teacher and she tells me about her days. Generally it's like taming lions many times. Kid's don't get the stuff they are being taught, because it's endlessly boring and they don't care. Not a bit. I assume they generally hate math classes.

And I can see why: they don't actually accomplish anything, have no context, just pound on basic formulas (which the article actually highlights well in the beginning).

So, I think that the solution is to package the knowledge in creative tasks. Give the kids assignments that they can creatively engage in. Give some leeway on the solutions. Let them work in small groups. This would give a bit of cooperation in the groups and competition between. Give good grades to the most efficient solutions. Structure the tasks so that the students need a basic understanding of the current topic that has to be learned and add them the resources (like KA). Then you might end up with them actually learning something.

And knowledge that is acquired during the solution of particular problems actually tends to stick longer than the next test.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#53
post #31

(Obviously biased member of KA here.) "Khan Academy and its donors may preclude better products from coming along" I just don't understand this. KA, Udacity, Coursera, Codecademy, MITx, teachontablo.com, this list goes on. I don't see how KA has done anything but prove the possibility of traction. When professors like Thrun and Norvig and investors like Paul Graham, Fred Wilson, and Peter Thiel are excited about the…

> "Khan Academy and its donors may preclude better products from coming along"

The author is just bitter. One website on the internet does not preclude another. As you said, there are many startups. Focusing on just KA, the author might be wearing horse blinders.

If he is a teacher, he should be counseling his students instead to repeating the same lesson that can be learned from a video. There will always be a need for direct human tutoring.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#54
post #26
post #13

To address our challenges, we need to do what every other successful country has done: invest in professional development; give teachers more time to collaborate; and provide them with resources that help them not only meet the learning standards, but exceed them. You could have copy/pasted that conclusion without altering a word from the debate about every other educational reform: school choice/vouchers, NCLB, high…

You seem awefully cynical considering that you sell software to teachers (which they themself pay for) so that they can teach their children more efficiently. I mean I have no love for unions and I am well aware that they have no great love for the students but even so, isn't your point a bit to cynical?

[deleted]

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#55
post #31

(Obviously biased member of KA here.) "Khan Academy and its donors may preclude better products from coming along" I just don't understand this. KA, Udacity, Coursera, Codecademy, MITx, teachontablo.com, this list goes on. I don't see how KA has done anything but prove the possibility of traction. When professors like Thrun and Norvig and investors like Paul Graham, Fred Wilson, and Peter Thiel are excited about the…

I think it's a mistake for them to throw KA in the same category as traditional K-12 education in the first place. At least from my experience with it, people don't go on Kahn Academy to try to learn everything; it's more valuable when you're looking for knowledge about a specific subject, and you already have a reason for wanting to learn it.

The article's main criticism is that KA doesn't try to talk about all the possible uses of the subject matter. I'd rather they didn't, or at the very least kept it separate. Unless someone's being forced to sit down and watch educational videos, that doesn't add enough value to justify the time spent.

It may be that other competitors (including the ones you've mentioned) will try to fill the gap and take a more traditional education role. But saying something's bad just because it's not occupying the exact niche that the author wants it to? That's not a very useful criticism.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#56
post #31

(Obviously biased member of KA here.) "Khan Academy and its donors may preclude better products from coming along" I just don't understand this. KA, Udacity, Coursera, Codecademy, MITx, teachontablo.com, this list goes on. I don't see how KA has done anything but prove the possibility of traction. When professors like Thrun and Norvig and investors like Paul Graham, Fred Wilson, and Peter Thiel are excited about the…

I think it's a mistake for them to throw KA in the same category as traditional K-12 education in the first place. At least from my experience with it, people don't go on Kahn Academy to try to learn everything; it's more valuable when you're looking for knowledge about a specific subject, and you already have a reason for wanting to learn it.

The article's main criticism is that KA doesn't try to talk about all the possible uses of the subject matter. I'd rather they didn't, or at the very least kept it separate. Unless someone's being forced to sit down and watch educational videos, that doesn't add enough value to justify the time spent.

It may be that other competitors (including the ones you've mentioned) will try to fill the gap and take a more traditional education role. But saying something's bad just because it's not occupying the exact niche that the author wants it to? That's not a very useful criticism.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#57
post #26
post #13

To address our challenges, we need to do what every other successful country has done: invest in professional development; give teachers more time to collaborate; and provide them with resources that help them not only meet the learning standards, but exceed them. You could have copy/pasted that conclusion without altering a word from the debate about every other educational reform: school choice/vouchers, NCLB, high…

You seem awefully cynical considering that you sell software to teachers (which they themself pay for) so that they can teach their children more efficiently. I mean I have no love for unions and I am well aware that they have no great love for the students but even so, isn't your point a bit to cynical?

Because this wasn't clear to me: are you arguing that his point is wrong, or that its amount of cynicism displeases you?

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#58

For many of us teachers, this is somewhat disconcerting. Gamification is fine when students are trying to save Zelda, but it’s more problematic when math becomes an obstacle, and eighth grade just another “level.” The author is delusional. That's exactly what 8th, or any other grade, is. Get enough points, proceed to the next grade. Score high enough on the leader board, proceed to the college you want.

Agreed, this was exactly where I started to get suspicious.

Author: "Gamification is bad when applied to eighth grade."

I kept looking for the support for that claim, didn't really find any. The IPI study was tossed in, but it dealt with a tangentially related educational program, and seemed to endorse methods focused education over memorization of answers. This article was attacking process focused aspects of Khan, so I'm not sure IPI was the best study to cite.

It's a drawn out article, and light on evidence. I wouldn't look to the author for advice on teaching others critical thinking.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#59
post #42

For many of us teachers, this is somewhat disconcerting. Gamification is fine when students are trying to save Zelda, but it’s more problematic when math becomes an obstacle, and eighth grade just another “level.” The author is delusional. That's exactly what 8th, or any other grade, is. Get enough points, proceed to the next grade. Score high enough on the leader board, proceed to the college you want.

I'm shocked by how often this needs to be pointed out.

There is one group of people who hardly ever need to have this pointed out to them: eighth grade students. They know how arbitrary it can be.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#60
I agree with some of the thoughts of the author on this topics, but some of the value of the Khan Academy comes in the use of video and private study as an opportunity for students to learn. Some students thrive in a classroom with lots of other students, others do not. The use of video allows some students to pause, stop, rewind and take copious amounts of notes without the potential ridicule of classmates. It also lets teaches that may be great lesson planners or one-on-one teachers and not good lecturers have the very best provide the lectures, letting them focus where they might be better suited.
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