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Fullscreen apps above the MacBook notch

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Re: Fullscreen apps above the MacBook notch

#51

Post by zozbot234 »

philippejara wrote: post #48
handsclean wrote: post #31

This “every single pixel” stuff reminds me of how many people will work at a tube of toothpaste for a minute just to squeeze out one more drop. It’s not really about getting more toothpaste, because you could easily just buy more. It’s also not really about getting the most toothpaste for your money, because you’re likely not also focusing on cheap tubes, bulk buys, etc. It’s certainly not about getting the most toot…

You have a white menu bar that suddenly just gets cut off by a black square, its distracting and jarring. I can assure you the people that are giving up the entirety of length of this bar to not have the black portion stick out aren't worried about "waste".

Yes, which is why it makes some sense to use TopNotch (mentioned in sibling comments) which turns the menubar black and "hides" the notch completely. Then the menu labels and icons are more easily seen as part of a truly separate "new second display". This solution is also well tested in mobile devices with a notch-like screen cutout. In fact, even the latest Apple iPhone Pro models resort to adding a black area ("dynamic island") to hide the front-facing camera cutout.

Re: Fullscreen apps above the MacBook notch

#52

Post by adam_arthur »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #36
adam_arthur wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you say space isn't important, because you look at a small portion of the screen at a time, yet having a larger screen is useful to have more space to place apps? So, in the end you're saying screen real estate is important? Or not? You have to pick one to be logically consistent.

I’m not OP, but I don’t see an inconsistency about what they actually said. They didn’t say screen real estate doesn’t matter at all , only that the specific space under discussion isn’t a concern to them. I imagine many Mac users can relate, especially long time Mac users who remember when the menubar couldn’t even be hidden. As far as the value of larger versus smaller screens, I can also relate to OP. When I’m sit…

> They didn’t say screen real estate doesn’t matter at all, only that the specific space under discussion isn’t a concern to them

"More space matters, but not if it's 100px at the top of the screen"

If you are a believer that additional screen space provides some marginal value, as the majority of people do, then you cannot at all argue that there's nothing lost by losing screen space. If you believe that you only need 15" and anything beyond that does not provide additional marginal value, then you can be logically consistent with these two statements.

If you don't see the logical inconsistency, I can't help you, sorry.

Re: Fullscreen apps above the MacBook notch

#53

Post by eyelidlessness »

hiisukun wrote: post #41
handsclean wrote: post #31

This “every single pixel” stuff reminds me of how many people will work at a tube of toothpaste for a minute just to squeeze out one more drop. It’s not really about getting more toothpaste, because you could easily just buy more. It’s also not really about getting the most toothpaste for your money, because you’re likely not also focusing on cheap tubes, bulk buys, etc. It’s certainly not about getting the most toot…

I'm a toothpaste last-bit-squeezer for sure. It's not loss aversion -- it's waste aversion. There's probably lots of reasons why I don't like to see things wasted, including social, or family upbringing, or personality. But I have the same impulses with food, clothes, computers, almost everything. I don't always buy food in bulk to save on cost, or look for the best deals, but whatever I have bought I try my best not…

I totally relate to waste aversion but that’s also why I feel like this particular topic seems like it brings out all kinds of weird irrational instincts. There isn’t anything wasted here, just something that affords a little extra for an incomplete set of scenarios. Sometimes it’s a little more screen space for a menu to sit a little bit higher than an equivalent spec screen. Sometimes it’s just blank space with no backlight, and the remaining screen area is the same as if you never had the space to begin with. Maybe you can make better use of that space, but I’d put good odds on it being overall more wasteful to expend those resources (human and everything their efforts demand) than just waiting a few more years until the notch vanishes behind its inevitable under-screen evolution.

Re: Fullscreen apps above the MacBook notch

#54

Post by eyelidlessness »

adam_arthur wrote: post #52
eyelidlessness wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not OP, but I don’t see an inconsistency about what they actually said. They didn’t say screen real estate doesn’t matter at all , only that the specific space under discussion isn’t a concern to them. I imagine many Mac users can relate, especially long time Mac users who remember when the menubar couldn’t even be hidden. As far as the value of larger versus smaller screens, I can also relate to OP. When I’m sit…

> They didn’t say screen real estate doesn’t matter at all, only that the specific space under discussion isn’t a concern to them "More space matters, but not if it's 100px at the top of the screen" If you are a believer that additional screen space provides some marginal value, as the majority of people do, then you cannot at all argue that there's nothing lost by losing screen space. If you believe that you only ne…

I have a comically large 43” monitor sitting on my desk, so maybe you’re not engaging the things people are saying in good faith.

Re: Fullscreen apps above the MacBook notch

#55

Post by wtallis »

frankus wrote: post #25

The "Automatically hide and show the menubar" setting should really default to "Never" for notched displays, since it doesn't actually gain you any extra real-estate and just slows you down with a pointless animation. I finally turned it off because on my (non-notched) external display it was too easy to accidentally activate, which would disable the thing in the toolbar that I actually intended to click on (and then…

For productivity apps I agree, but defaulting to not hiding the menu bar would probably mean playing full-screen video still had a distracting menu bar present.

Re: Fullscreen apps above the MacBook notch

#56

Post by throwaway290 »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #53
hiisukun wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a toothpaste last-bit-squeezer for sure. It's not loss aversion -- it's waste aversion. There's probably lots of reasons why I don't like to see things wasted, including social, or family upbringing, or personality. But I have the same impulses with food, clothes, computers, almost everything. I don't always buy food in bulk to save on cost, or look for the best deals, but whatever I have bought I try my best not…

I totally relate to waste aversion but that’s also why I feel like this particular topic seems like it brings out all kinds of weird irrational instincts. There isn’t anything wasted here, just something that affords a little extra for an incomplete set of scenarios. Sometimes it’s a little more screen space for a menu to sit a little bit higher than an equivalent spec screen. Sometimes it’s just blank space with no…

It's not irrational in case of toothpaste. Leftover toothpaste mean you buy more and encourage more waste in the environment. This stuff adds up.

Re: Fullscreen apps above the MacBook notch

#57

Post by eloisius »

wtallis wrote: post #55
frankus wrote: post #25

The "Automatically hide and show the menubar" setting should really default to "Never" for notched displays, since it doesn't actually gain you any extra real-estate and just slows you down with a pointless animation. I finally turned it off because on my (non-notched) external display it was too easy to accidentally activate, which would disable the thing in the toolbar that I actually intended to click on (and then…

For productivity apps I agree, but defaulting to not hiding the menu bar would probably mean playing full-screen video still had a distracting menu bar present.

Does the notch cut into full screen video? That would drive me crazy.

Re: Fullscreen apps above the MacBook notch

#58

Post by MrJohz »

throwaway290 wrote: post #56
eyelidlessness wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally relate to waste aversion but that’s also why I feel like this particular topic seems like it brings out all kinds of weird irrational instincts. There isn’t anything wasted here, just something that affords a little extra for an incomplete set of scenarios. Sometimes it’s a little more screen space for a menu to sit a little bit higher than an equivalent spec screen. Sometimes it’s just blank space with no…

It's not irrational in case of toothpaste. Leftover toothpaste mean you buy more and encourage more waste in the environment. This stuff adds up.

It can be kind of irrational. If toothpaste waste is important to you, there are better ways to avoid it. My local no-packaging store, for example, sells toothpaste tablets, completely without plastic or packaging of any kind (and I'm sure you could buy something similar online in bulk with minimal packaging).

The effect on waste production that using the last few drops of every toothpaste tube will be negligible compared to the use of a waste-free or waste-minimising alternative, but I get the impression that a lot of people do the former without trying the latter out of a misplaced sense of utility.

Re: Fullscreen apps above the MacBook notch

#59

Post by lopkeny12ko »

This is fine, but I (and many others) want the exact opposite. I'm so tired of the distracting notch, I just want the OS to render the desktop environment at a vertically cropped resolution so that the top of the rendered area ends at the bottom of the notch, effectively completely getting rid of it.

The author self-promotes his app "Lunar" which apparently does this, but it's paid and closed-source. Anyone know of a FOSS alternative?

Re: Fullscreen apps above the MacBook notch

#60

Post by eyelidlessness »

throwaway290 wrote: post #56
eyelidlessness wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally relate to waste aversion but that’s also why I feel like this particular topic seems like it brings out all kinds of weird irrational instincts. There isn’t anything wasted here, just something that affords a little extra for an incomplete set of scenarios. Sometimes it’s a little more screen space for a menu to sit a little bit higher than an equivalent spec screen. Sometimes it’s just blank space with no…

It's not irrational in case of toothpaste. Leftover toothpaste mean you buy more and encourage more waste in the environment. This stuff adds up.

I’m reasonably sure that arguing about leftover toothpaste on the internet does more damage to the environment than leaving trace amounts of toothpaste in its tube.
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