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Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

nytimes.com

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Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#111

Post by mc32 »

ctvo wrote: post #106
v0idzer0 wrote: post #98

NYT gets so much mileage out of “researchers say” and “experts say” yet they never cite anyone

> Dark humor about race or ideology can eventually shape the beliefs of impressionable young people, and innocuous memes can be co-opted into symbols of hatred, researchers say. Immediately following this paragraph is a quote from a researcher: > “If you’re a young man with no prospects hanging out on 4chan, you’re definitely on some Discords and probably some pretty dark Discords,” said Dale Beran, a lecturer at Mor…

Hmmm this harkens back to “movies influence kids” “music influences kids”, video games influence kids” etc that many people argued in order to censor aspects of music, movies and video games.

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#112

Post by ajsnigrutin »

leoqa wrote: post #86
876978095789789 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care. 4chan is one of the few large forums remaining on the internet where there's no downvoting, no flagging, and no dang-esque tone policers. I would be much more sad to see it go away than this place.

It must be hard for you if your idea of free expression requires absolutely no limits. I personally think it’s a bad faith argument and you’re not actually interested in reducing radicalization.

> free expression requires absolutely no limits

But doesn't it?

Usually it's the authoritarians, dictators and generally "bad guys" who need to limit speech, censor, burn books, etc.

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#113

Post by vuln »

wussboy wrote: post #104
xboxnolifes wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a weird way to frame a truly free speech environment. Yes, speech is more limited to left-leaning speech on most accepted parts of the internet. That doesn't make a board that allows both to be right-leaning. It means that most of the internet is left-leaning. Ofc, im simplifying to left vs right here, but that's only in response to calling it a right leaning board.

Many people confuse "free speech is a good" with "free speech is the highest good". > truly free speech environment Sounds awful.

[flagged]

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#114

Post by Amezarak »

anthk wrote: post #100
throw__away7391 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is NOT ok to be a communist. Communists and white nationalists are morally equivalent, though communism to date has a much higher body count than white nationalism and their methods of execution and torture have on balance been more savage and more brutal.

We stopped white Nationalisms. If not, Communism's death toll would be a joke in comparison.

This post really illustrates the expansion of terms into meaninglessness. One presumes they're referring to the Allies (who themselves would now be considered extremely racist) stopping the Nazis, who allied with the Japanese and were targeting/killing mostly Jewish and Slavic peoples. The Nazis were specifically pro-German/Aryan and whatever they thought that meant ethnically. They did not see things in today's racial terms. It's absurd to describe them as "white nationalists" because they didn't think that being "white" was good. There were a lot of "bad" "white" people in their worldview.

It also seems unlikely that the Nazis would have succeeded in killing many more millions of people than they did without Allied intervention, but at least this requires some unprovable speculation about alternative histories. Either way, can we stop fighting battles almost a century old? Today's bad guys are not yesterday's and yesterday's good guys are not today's good guys.

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#115

Post by Jordrok »

876978095789789 wrote: post #47
beebmam wrote: post #24

I think the accusation that 4chan is a far-right message board is accurate, and I believe that accusation can be supported by showing that 4chan's explicitly stated rules can be used to plausibly deny this accusation, while demonstrating that they're are not enforced (or selectively enforced). 4chan's Rule 3: "You will not post any of the following outside of /b/: Troll posts, Racism, Anthropomorphic ("furry") pornog…

[flagged]

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be."

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#116

Post by leoqa »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #112
leoqa wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It must be hard for you if your idea of free expression requires absolutely no limits. I personally think it’s a bad faith argument and you’re not actually interested in reducing radicalization.

> free expression requires absolutely no limits But doesn't it? Usually it's the authoritarians, dictators and generally "bad guys" who need to limit speech, censor, burn books, etc.

Society isn’t a system we can reason about in absolutes. The spirit of the law says that you can’t tell “fire!” in a crowded building, I think we collectively agree that there are limitations on free speech and we’re fortunate to let the courts map out the nuance rather than a mob or a dictator.

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#117

Post by vuln »

leoqa wrote: post #86
876978095789789 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care. 4chan is one of the few large forums remaining on the internet where there's no downvoting, no flagging, and no dang-esque tone policers. I would be much more sad to see it go away than this place.

It must be hard for you if your idea of free expression requires absolutely no limits. I personally think it’s a bad faith argument and you’re not actually interested in reducing radicalization.

> you’re not actually interested in reducing radicalization.

Could you perhaps share some studies of effective ways to reduce radicalization? I highly doubt “not visiting or posting on 4chan” is one of them.

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#118

Post by sbuttgereit »

ctvo wrote: post #106
v0idzer0 wrote: post #98

NYT gets so much mileage out of “researchers say” and “experts say” yet they never cite anyone

> Dark humor about race or ideology can eventually shape the beliefs of impressionable young people, and innocuous memes can be co-opted into symbols of hatred, researchers say. Immediately following this paragraph is a quote from a researcher: > “If you’re a young man with no prospects hanging out on 4chan, you’re definitely on some Discords and probably some pretty dark Discords,” said Dale Beran, a lecturer at Mor…

"Dale Beran - Lecturer/ Animation Coordinator , Screenwriting and Animation"

Researcher, perhaps, but seems to not be what his credentials or college role is about.

https://www.morgan.edu/screenwriting-and-animation/faculty-a...

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#119

Post by singleshot_ »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #68
carom wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also be a communist. You can also be an open source maximalist. You can also be a gay dog furry. You can also be trans. You can also be extremely autistic. It is good to have a place where people can exist as themselves and be exposed to different ideas. I would wager that most people who go there are far more accepting than the general population.

It's ok to be a communist, it's ok to use open source software, it's ok to be gay, a furry, trans, or autistic. It's not ok to be a white nationalist. /b/ and other 4chan boards do not ban white nationalists.

[flagged]

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#120

Post by ajsnigrutin »

leoqa wrote: post #116
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> free expression requires absolutely no limits But doesn't it? Usually it's the authoritarians, dictators and generally "bad guys" who need to limit speech, censor, burn books, etc.

Society isn’t a system we can reason about in absolutes. The spirit of the law says that you can’t tell “fire!” in a crowded building, I think we collectively agree that there are limitations on free speech and we’re fortunate to let the courts map out the nuance rather than a mob or a dictator.

Nothing is absolute... but for example, in my country (former socialist one), things like affirmative action would be considered very racist, while some countries (mostly USA) consider affirmative action anti-racist. If I argue with an american about this, which one of us is racist, and who decides that when it comes to censorship?
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