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Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

nytimes.com

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Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#101

Post by wussboy »

v0idzer0 wrote: post #93
nemothekid wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> much of what's posted on 4chan is ironic, deliberately inflammatory This hasn't been plausible, much less true, for 10 years. I don't know how anyone can look at, for example, Payton Gendron's manifesto and say it's ironic. Were the bullets he fired ironic as well? There is an entire generation of users, who are probably the bulk of users now, who were never in on the "joke" (if there ever was one).

Citing one crazy person using a platform doesn’t make your argument coherent. How many shooters have live streamed on facebook?

This doesn't absolve 4chan, but rather damns Facebook.

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#102

Post by HopenHeyHi »

flangola7 wrote: post #53
876978095789789 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

We learned why you don't give anti-Semites the benefit of the doubt many decades ago. "It's just a joke" up until it isn't, and by then it's far too late. The NZ mosque shooter's manifesto was almost literally one long 4chan meme thread. There were pages and pages of images and charts and memes that were (and still are) posted to 4chan every day. He openly stated he wasn't always racist and that /pol/ significantly c…

[flagged]

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#103

Post by Amezarak »

flangola7 wrote: post #53
876978095789789 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

We learned why you don't give anti-Semites the benefit of the doubt many decades ago. "It's just a joke" up until it isn't, and by then it's far too late. The NZ mosque shooter's manifesto was almost literally one long 4chan meme thread. There were pages and pages of images and charts and memes that were (and still are) posted to 4chan every day. He openly stated he wasn't always racist and that /pol/ significantly c…

How many 4chan memes would it take to turn you into a racist murderer? I don’t know about you but for me the number is NaN. All the memes in the world cannot do it.

People seek out ideological justifications for acting out their violent desires, which are inculcated by broken and atomized social environments. The ideology is the excuse, not the cause.

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#104

Post by wussboy »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #75
micromacrofoot wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're free to go on there and deride any white nationalists you see Yes but you can do this anywhere. There are a limited number of places where you can openly be a white nationalist without being banned, 4chan is one of them.

That's a weird way to frame a truly free speech environment. Yes, speech is more limited to left-leaning speech on most accepted parts of the internet. That doesn't make a board that allows both to be right-leaning. It means that most of the internet is left-leaning. Ofc, im simplifying to left vs right here, but that's only in response to calling it a right leaning board.

Many people confuse "free speech is a good" with "free speech is the highest good".

> truly free speech environment

Sounds awful.

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#105

Post by jackothy »

ben_w wrote: post #65
jackothy wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure that even an actual Nazi would realize that they do not have the option to just straight up murder you right then and there at the restaurant table. A person also does not need to be uncontrollably angry at to qualify as a Nazi. As one example, cynical and dispassionate severe dehumanization of would also qualify you as a Nazi in my book. A Nazi who is cynical and dispassionate, rather than uncontroll…

> I'm pretty sure that even an actualy Nazi would realize that they do not have the option to just straight up murder you right then and there at the restaurant table. The fact that you think that's a counter argument, indicates you have severely failed to consider my perspective. I won't willing hang out with you if you knowingly hang out with them. If you try to force me to hang out with you, I believe you would be…

I don't think I am trying to (or capable of) forcing you to hang out with anyone. But I am trying to logically convince you that association and approval are orthogonal. I also don't think that wishing someone dead should be illegal. Acting on that thought, however, should of course be illegal.

Simply having a conversation with someone does nothing to help that person. If I eat at a restaurant with a Nazi, once we leave then nothing in the world will have changed.

Simply having a civil discussion with someone also does not mean that I approve of that person or their views. Most political discussions are inherently about disagreement.

If such a conversation means that you will think that I am necessarily evil, then I wonder why you think that.

If someone does something truly abhorrent, the appropriate reaction is to put them in prison. Whether or not to interact with that person is not relevant.

It seems to me like you are saying that the necessary obstacle to civil discourse is your own reaction to the situation. In my last comment I had assumed you meant the Nazi was the one who would not be able to remain civil. I guess I am opposed to emotional reactions when they accomplish nothing. Of course, overcoming our emotions is easier said than done, but it remains a goal of mine when it comes to anger and fear.

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#106

Post by ctvo »

v0idzer0 wrote: post #98

NYT gets so much mileage out of “researchers say” and “experts say” yet they never cite anyone

> Dark humor about race or ideology can eventually shape the beliefs of impressionable young people, and innocuous memes can be co-opted into symbols of hatred, researchers say.

Immediately following this paragraph is a quote from a researcher:

> “If you’re a young man with no prospects hanging out on 4chan, you’re definitely on some Discords and probably some pretty dark Discords,” said Dale Beran, a lecturer at Morgan State University and the author of “It Came from Something Awful: How a Toxic Troll Army Accidentally Memed Donald Trump into Office.”

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#107

Post by 876978095789789 »

hooverd wrote: post #79
876978095789789 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

have you visited /pol/ lately?

I haven't used it regularly since the pandemic, but back then it was one of the few places (along with /sci/) where the "lab leak" hypothesis could be openly discussed. Anons regularly dug up questionable gain-of-function papers published by Shi Zhengli and the Wuhan Institute of Virology, and archived them. Meanwhile on HN back then (in 2020), outright suggestions that it came from a lab would get you -2 [flagged] [dead].

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#108

Post by nemothekid »

v0idzer0 wrote: post #93
nemothekid wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> much of what's posted on 4chan is ironic, deliberately inflammatory This hasn't been plausible, much less true, for 10 years. I don't know how anyone can look at, for example, Payton Gendron's manifesto and say it's ironic. Were the bullets he fired ironic as well? There is an entire generation of users, who are probably the bulk of users now, who were never in on the "joke" (if there ever was one).

Citing one crazy person using a platform doesn’t make your argument coherent. How many shooters have live streamed on facebook?

There is a huge difference between "livestreaming a shooting on facebook", and writing a 200 page manifesto about how /pol/ redpilled you. I guess all 200 pages were just "banter". The guy practically wrote a book on being radicalized by /pol/, and that to you, is the same as opening up Facebook and clicking the "record" button.

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#109

Post by vkou »

mannyv wrote: post #2

The NYT characterizes 4chan as a far-right message board, which is ridiculous. I mean, if giving the finger to pretty much everything is considered far-right, then what's considered far-left? Fundamentalism?

Saying 4chan isn't a far-right message board is like saying HN isn't a tech forum, and citing the existence of non-tech threads to support that argument.

Re: Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents

#110

Post by micromacrofoot »

jackothy wrote: post #70
micromacrofoot wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, what is this argument? /b/ users aren't doing academic research and you know that. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but I'm talking about the average /b/ user here... the site is rife with racism. Are you seriously claiming that people should visit /b/ to avoid echo chambers? Have you been to /b/? I'd argue that it's probably more productive to change your perspective by hitting yourself in the…

I don't think I have ever been to /b/, and it could very well be a valid claim that most /b/ frequenters are assholes. I'm glad to see you acknowledge that there are exceptions to every rule. My comment is meant more as a defense of 4chan as a whole. I have seen valuable information originate from their technology board, for example. I just don't want to see prejudice against any and all 4chan users. Blanket applicat…

If you’ve never been to /b/ then you really don’t understand the severity. It regularly produces some of the most vile content I’ve seen anywhere. It’s a case where you lose something just by engaging.
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