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ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

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Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#251

Post by JohnFen »

dahart wrote: post #247
JohnFen wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's that anyone is lying as much as the concept of "lifetime licenses" is itself a lie. There is no such thing, as proven by all the various ways that such licenses have been voided.

> There is no such thing Sure there is, there’s an entire thread here of people mentioning their faves. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35538466 It’s not proof or even true to claim that some examples mean all lifetime licenses will be voided. Like most things in life, it’s a distribution where some people behave well and some people don’t. It’s valid to worry about whether a lifetime license will survive the fu…

The very fact that it's possible for it to not work out makes it a deceptive term because it's not a "lifetime license".

If you actually buy software, there is no possibility that the company can take it away from you.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#252

Post by unsupp0rted »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #223
unsupp0rted wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The client business isn't unethical. Their admin staff are human robots though: zero abstract thinking or self-direction.

Corporations are AIs that use humans for computation.

Indeed. A corporation could pass the Turing test, but we might consider it psychopathic or at minimum sociopathic.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#253

Post by mattl »

mthoms wrote: post #205
matsemann wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JetBrains actually ended up with this model after a lot of pushback when they tried changing their model a few years ago. But it's good that they listened, and now are even touted as the go-to best-practice.

They still require you to downgrade if you let your subscription expire. Users have a perpetual license to the version released when the subscription started and not when it ended . Thus, if you let your subscription expire, you need to downgrade the software you already have installed on your system. On the surface, it's not that big of a deal. But there's no guarantee that your downgrade will occur gracefully. It c…

It seems like you get all the versions you've paid for.

"You will receive perpetual fallback licenses for every version you’ve paid 12 consecutive months for."

https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207240845-What...

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#254

Post by toastal »

philistine wrote: post #128
xeromal wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's more of a manufacturer choice. The pixel and top-tier samsung lines both get 6 years of security updates

Security updates is carrying a lot of weight here. People are probably expecting feature updates, which is still not a guarantee.

It's kinda bad since the phones suiting my needs are still in the two-year category.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#256

Post by dahart »

JohnFen wrote: post #251
dahart wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no such thing Sure there is, there’s an entire thread here of people mentioning their faves. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35538466 It’s not proof or even true to claim that some examples mean all lifetime licenses will be voided. Like most things in life, it’s a distribution where some people behave well and some people don’t. It’s valid to worry about whether a lifetime license will survive the fu…

The very fact that it's possible for it to not work out makes it a deceptive term because it's not a "lifetime license". If you actually buy software, there is no possibility that the company can take it away from you.

> The very fact that it's possible for it to not work out makes it a deceptive term because it's not a "lifetime license".

Naw, by that logic any sale of any kind is “deceptive”. You’re conflating sometimes with always. The existence of dishonest people doesn’t make you a dishonest person, right?

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#257

Post by OkayPhysicist »

stronglikedan wrote: post #87
planede wrote: post #5

Isn't this just breach of contract, plain and simple? Change of ownership should have little to do with it.

In my limited experience, companies that breach contracts like this plan for a small amount of litigation in their books, and determine that not enough people will have the means or will to sue them, but the profits of breaching the contracts will be enough to cover the few that do.

Which is why punitive damages should be more common. It should NEVER be financially feasible to bet against the courts and your own liability.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#258

Post by OkayPhysicist »

jollyllama wrote: post #187

So there was a change in ownership that precipitated this. I can understand the author was wronged. But what if things were done slightly differently, i.e. the owner of ManyCam EOL'd the product, sold his business, and a "new" equivalent product were released? Technically, the agreement wouldn't be violated in the same way, but the effect would be the same. Would the author be just as upset, or would this be more und…

I think it would still be irritating, but significantly less so. When a company buys another out and continues using a piece of software's name, they're doing so because that brand has built up some level of awareness and goodwill with the market. That awareness and goodwill is directly the result of its existing, satisfied customers. Alienating those satisfied customers while still cashing in on the reputation they built for you violates not only a basic sense of fairness, but probably in this case contractual obligations.

On the other hand, if you strip the existing software for parts, and put out something substantially different under new branding, at least you're giving something up.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#259

Post by jollyllama »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #258
jollyllama wrote: post #187

So there was a change in ownership that precipitated this. I can understand the author was wronged. But what if things were done slightly differently, i.e. the owner of ManyCam EOL'd the product, sold his business, and a "new" equivalent product were released? Technically, the agreement wouldn't be violated in the same way, but the effect would be the same. Would the author be just as upset, or would this be more und…

I think it would still be irritating, but significantly less so. When a company buys another out and continues using a piece of software's name, they're doing so because that brand has built up some level of awareness and goodwill with the market. That awareness and goodwill is directly the result of its existing, satisfied customers. Alienating those satisfied customers while still cashing in on the reputation they…

Yes, the branding was the thing I was not accounting for.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#260

Post by iudqnolq »

mthoms wrote: post #206
dceddia wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the developer side I feel like this type of license makes the most sense to me too. After selling a desktop app with a license like that for a little while though, I’ve also unfortunately realized that not everyone understands it. I had a number of customers referring to it as a “subscription” (which it wasn’t, because it didn’t auto-renew and you could keep using the last version forever) or “lifetime” (which i…

>you could keep using the last version forever Note that this isn't what Jetbrains does. You only have a perpetual license to the version released when the subscription started . Thus, you'll have to downgrade and say good-bye to any features and fixes released over the term of your subscription.

Not quite: once you've paid for a version for twelve consecutive months you get a perpetual license to that version. If you unsubscribe you keep your perpetual licenses.
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