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ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

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Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#231

Post by danpalmer »

henriquez wrote: post #210

Remember Google gave early adopters free "lifetime" subscriptions to their Google Workspaces for Business (aka gmail for domain names) and then pulled the rug out a year ago? If Google can get away with this shit then it's normalized in our culture that nothing corporations promise is true, pray they don't alter the terms further.

The important bit here is "free". While it wasn't a great move, nothing was paid for so there's no contract. Also I'm not sure it was ever called "lifetime" (I can't find that), it looks like it was just "grandfathering" old users in to a free plan.

I think that's a materially different situation to selling lifetime licences and then reneging on that.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#232

Post by JohnFen »

weinzierl wrote: post #100
Someone1234 wrote: post #55

I just want to state outright that OP was wronged, and I side with them. That being said; I dislike both full subscription (i.e. breaks on expiration) and lifetime licenses. Subscriptions are too expensive for software that rarely gets major investment and lifetime licenses are dishonest (e.g. company cannot work for free, so their funded is based on unlimited growth, which isn't realistic for most). My current favor…

> My current favorite business model is the "You're buying the current version and [years] of updates." Then typically you'll get some discount to renew your "[years] more of updates." Fully agree, I think this fair for the customer as well as the supplier. I know enterprise customers demand guarantees for [years] of updates, but I think in the B2C world "You're buying the current version and updates as long as we pr…

> This model is not as good for the customer as your version

I don't know. I think that model is better for the customer.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#233

Post by JohnFen »

mnw21cam wrote: post #186
annoyingnoob wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A perpetual license does not have to come with perpetual updates, it just has to keep working as-is. Seems completely reasonable, want the new version or updates then buy them.

The problem with that is security bugs.

Traditionally, security updates had always been free. There's no reason why that can't be the case again.

The problem is that the industry has largely decided to combine security and feature updates into an inseparable whole, which I think is a bad thing both from the customer's point of view and from a security point of view.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#234

Post by MSFT_Edging »

Someone1234 wrote: post #55

I just want to state outright that OP was wronged, and I side with them. That being said; I dislike both full subscription (i.e. breaks on expiration) and lifetime licenses. Subscriptions are too expensive for software that rarely gets major investment and lifetime licenses are dishonest (e.g. company cannot work for free, so their funded is based on unlimited growth, which isn't realistic for most). My current favor…

I honestly don't mind the "buy current version" as long as the company doesn't prevent you downloading the version you have the license to.

IE years ago I got a vmware workstation license, I bought it at v15, got a v16 update, and I still have access to v16 which works perfectly fine for my use cases.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#235

Post by JohnFen »

detaro wrote: post #226
JohnFen wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because it didn’t auto-renew and you could keep using the last version forever Surely that's just a regular sale, not a "lifetime license". I mean, technically, it's a nonrevocable perpetual license, but that's what has traditionally been considered a "sale" in software. Saying "lifetime license" implies something else entirely.

Not really, because a "sale" would traditionally be for a specific version (or a version and patches for that version at best).

Perhaps I misunderstood the OP, but isn't that exactly what he was doing? That's how I interpreted "it didn’t auto-renew and you could keep using the last version forever".

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#236

Post by JohnFen »

MrOwnPut wrote: post #221
JohnFen wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I agree with the "dishonest" label, but lifetime licenses are a bit scammy even when they're offered earnestly.

Could you elaborate? My Plex lifetime license has been very valuable to me and has already saved me money.

Because it's not clear what "lifetime" means. In practice what it means is "until the company is sold" or restructured or whatever.

But the implication is that it's for your lifetime.

How does your lifetime license save you money over just engaging in a straight-up purchase?

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#237

Post by MSFT_Edging »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #69
nebula8804 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great idea! A while back I had an idea to maybe scrape Linkedin(or download one of their numerous dumps) to help "track" executive movement from company to company and set alerts if I use products from the new company so I can have a heads up before they inevitably turn to shit. Alternatively, I was also looking to expand this to when companies get bought out by those vulture capital "management" firms as t…

Can’t wait for the social credit score determining people’s career prospects!

Oh no, accountability!

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#238

Post by BizarroLand »

hansvm wrote: post #155
nelox wrote: post #41

The OP states “the reason I tell all my CTO coachees they need everything in writing from their boss in their contract, a new boss will probably only honor what is written down, not spoken promises.” However, he seems to have ignored his own advice and not understood the ManyCam EULA. “… This license is in effect until one of the parties terminates the license. You may terminate the license by no longer using the Man…

The EULA may or may not be enforceable, but even if it is they're still liable for the real damages incurred by the false advertising causing people to make that purchase. It's kind of like if you buy a car as-is but the seller goes out of their way to knowingly lie about the condition of the car -- saying it's fit to drive when the brake lines have a leak or something. If there's any evidence then the courts will us…

For real. Contracts are not ironclad unbreakable deals with the devil even in America.

The question is, will you step up and fight for your fair portion? If the company has 100 diehard customers affected by this and 99 of them don't fight it, then it's easy to appease the 1 while still coming out ahead.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#239

Post by JohnFen »

matsemann wrote: post #181
ejb999 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 for naming jetbrains - I have always liked their way of doing business, including the substantial discount to renew each year - even in years when I don't use their tools much, I renew. Also specifically like how they remind me many times , and many months in advance that they are going to charge my credit card on my renewal date - unlike the scumbag companies that never want to draw attention to your upcoming ren…

JetBrains actually ended up with this model after a lot of pushback when they tried changing their model a few years ago. But it's good that they listened, and now are even touted as the go-to best-practice.

JetBrains has one of the less obnoxious licensing models, but it still prevents me from considering giving them any money.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#240

Post by yebyen »

MrOwnPut wrote: post #221
JohnFen wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I agree with the "dishonest" label, but lifetime licenses are a bit scammy even when they're offered earnestly.

Could you elaborate? My Plex lifetime license has been very valuable to me and has already saved me money.

FWIW, I regret not buying a lifetime Plex license. I am still paying every year.
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