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ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

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Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#221

Post by MrOwnPut »

JohnFen wrote: post #215
dahart wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lifetime licenses are dishonest (e.g. company cannot work for free, so their funded is based on unlimited growth, which isn't realistic for most). I don’t really know what you mean by “dishonest”, that seems like a slightly hyperbolic word here. If someone pays for a lifetime license the company isn’t working for free nor necessarily assuming unlimited growth, they just have to understand and correctly price the av…

I don't think I agree with the "dishonest" label, but lifetime licenses are a bit scammy even when they're offered earnestly.

Could you elaborate? My Plex lifetime license has been very valuable to me and has already saved me money.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#222

Post by withinboredom »

Someone1234 wrote: post #55

I just want to state outright that OP was wronged, and I side with them. That being said; I dislike both full subscription (i.e. breaks on expiration) and lifetime licenses. Subscriptions are too expensive for software that rarely gets major investment and lifetime licenses are dishonest (e.g. company cannot work for free, so their funded is based on unlimited growth, which isn't realistic for most). My current favor…

You’re assuming a customer will never churn. Customers churn, and if I can get you to pay me a “lifetime” purchase that is more than I’d expect; then I come out ahead. There is a ceiling with subscription purchases (provable with simple math: new customers * churn percentage * subscription cost = new money ceiling) but no theoretical ceiling with one-off purchases — it’s only limited by your marketing reach and funnel.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#223

Post by TheCoelacanth »

unsupp0rted wrote: post #146
porkbeer wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe dont work for demonstrably unethical clients.

The client business isn't unethical. Their admin staff are human robots though: zero abstract thinking or self-direction.

Corporations are AIs that use humans for computation.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#224

Post by JohnFen »

dceddia wrote: post #102
Someone1234 wrote: post #55

I just want to state outright that OP was wronged, and I side with them. That being said; I dislike both full subscription (i.e. breaks on expiration) and lifetime licenses. Subscriptions are too expensive for software that rarely gets major investment and lifetime licenses are dishonest (e.g. company cannot work for free, so their funded is based on unlimited growth, which isn't realistic for most). My current favor…

From the developer side I feel like this type of license makes the most sense to me too. After selling a desktop app with a license like that for a little while though, I’ve also unfortunately realized that not everyone understands it. I had a number of customers referring to it as a “subscription” (which it wasn’t, because it didn’t auto-renew and you could keep using the last version forever) or “lifetime” (which i…

> because it didn’t auto-renew and you could keep using the last version forever

Surely that's just a regular sale, not a "lifetime license". I mean, technically, it's a nonrevocable perpetual license, but that's what has traditionally been considered a "sale" in software. Saying "lifetime license" implies something else entirely.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#225

Post by JohnFen »

SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #119
asddubs wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the easiest way to communicate it is to just regularly increment your version number and then have people be able to buy version X. Like Photoshop, and really most software used to be sold.

Right! Has it really been that long since this was the status quo?! There was a time when it was expected that you bought a copy of Widgetmaker 2, and you could use it for as long as you liked, there might be some patches, there might not, but you own (or something close to it) the software and can use it whenever you want. When Widgetmaker 3 comes out, it's a new product with new features, and you'd have to buy it s…

One of the reasons why I buy less software than ever before is because so much software isn't sold like that anymore.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#226

Post by detaro »

JohnFen wrote: post #224
dceddia wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the developer side I feel like this type of license makes the most sense to me too. After selling a desktop app with a license like that for a little while though, I’ve also unfortunately realized that not everyone understands it. I had a number of customers referring to it as a “subscription” (which it wasn’t, because it didn’t auto-renew and you could keep using the last version forever) or “lifetime” (which i…

> because it didn’t auto-renew and you could keep using the last version forever Surely that's just a regular sale, not a "lifetime license". I mean, technically, it's a nonrevocable perpetual license, but that's what has traditionally been considered a "sale" in software. Saying "lifetime license" implies something else entirely.

Not really, because a "sale" would traditionally be for a specific version (or a version and patches for that version at best).

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#227

Post by mthoms »

hansvm wrote: post #157
SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of lifetime license: $39 Time used so far: 4 years Time remaining with new license: 2 years Time lost due to license change: 20 years Damages awarded to the plaintiff: $30

Court fees: $70

>Court fees: $70

Plus the opportunity cost of your lost time.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#228

Post by JohnFen »

dceddia wrote: post #120
asddubs wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the easiest way to communicate it is to just regularly increment your version number and then have people be able to buy version X. Like Photoshop, and really most software used to be sold.

Yeah, that's another way to go, and I considered doing that. The main thing I didn't like about that strategy was how I'd be sitting on lots of unused code between major releases. All the new features sitting on my SSD for months aren't helping any customers :/

> All the new features sitting on my SSD for months aren't helping any customers

But they can be used to build anticipation for the future release.

One of the many downsides of "continuous release" is that it's changed the mindset about software in customer's minds. It used to be that a new release was a highly anticipated event. Now, when people think about updates at all, it's usually with dread.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#229

Post by JohnFen »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #93
Someone1234 wrote: post #55

I just want to state outright that OP was wronged, and I side with them. That being said; I dislike both full subscription (i.e. breaks on expiration) and lifetime licenses. Subscriptions are too expensive for software that rarely gets major investment and lifetime licenses are dishonest (e.g. company cannot work for free, so their funded is based on unlimited growth, which isn't realistic for most). My current favor…

Perhaps the biggest reason for me for the lifetime license (I also have a Leanpub one) is to have less invoices [0] - the reason I also prefer 12month subscription options. One thing I hate about being a freelancer is grabbing all invoices for my accountant. [0] Also everyone please name the invoice file YYMMDD- - .pdf ;-) and send them via email, don't make me log in

Personally, I avoid all those invoices by refusing to "subscribe" to software. If I can't just buy it, I don't.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#230

Post by mthoms »

Advanced Custom Fields is one of the must-have WordPress plugins for anyone who works with WP professionally. They handled this like champs; Upon moving to a subscription model, all existing lifetime license holders continued to have their license honored. 100%. It was quite refreshing, actually.
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