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Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

hetzner.com

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Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#71

Post by brucethemoose2 »

BackBlast wrote: post #39
kytazo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try alpinelinux, you'll be able to find almost everything, coupled with nix for just in case. I've yet to find any package missing.

Introducing new distros to solve the problem is moving in the wrong direction. It's so much easier to deal with one distro in the cloud. Just more reasons not to go multi uArch.

ARM cloud hosts typically run distros with good ARM support. Oracle Linux is actually quite good, kinda like a pre optimized RHEL.

Which begs the question: what is Hetzner pushing on these? SUSE maybe?

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#72

Post by daneel_w »

hugoromano wrote: post #32
jeffbee wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have access to them a much more informative datapoint would be `openssl speed rsa` or `lzbench`. Sysbench is just a stunt it doesn't indicate much at all.

New Hetzner ARM: sign verify sign/s verify/s rsa 512 bits 0.000070s 0.000006s 14268.2 159885.6 rsa 1024 bits 0.000405s 0.000021s 2468.4 47757.7 rsa 2048 bits 0.002847s 0.000078s 351.3 12830.1 Hetzner x86: sign verify sign/s verify/s rsa 512 bits 0.000067s 0.000004s 14893.9 240902.8 rsa 1024 bits 0.000127s 0.000009s 7845.9 114300.9 rsa 2048 bits 0.000874s 0.000027s 1144.6 36800.6

If it's of any value to anyone, perhaps as an indication of hardware/environment implementation, I get identical numbers (<1% difference) on Oracle's Ampere Altra servers with OpenSSL 1.1.1n on Debian 11.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#73

Post by ericpauley »

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #59

I don't understand the hype around ARM64 in the server space. Is this just due to all the marketing from Apple around their proprietary M processors leaking into the enterprise market? The latest Xeon and EPYC offerings are very performance competitive, I doubt we need to overhaul and entire processor ISA paradigm for continued improvements.

It's probably pretty rare (though maybe increasing) to have a workload that is ARM-only, so it really comes down to price performance. Amazon claims 40% better price/performance on Gravition2 vs. comparable x86. While it varies by workload, for scenarios where this plays out and the architecture isn't important (languages increasingly make multi-arch deployment easy) this (and S3 intelligent tiering) are the closest thing to free money I can think of.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#74

Post by jsnell »

thatwasunusual wrote: post #66
Galaco wrote: post #38

Never figured out how to use Hertzner. Wanted to try since they get such a good reputation on here, but they banned my account when their system presented no way for me to verify my identity. The required either PayPal or passport. I have no PayPal account, and their 3rd party verification system only allows passport from your country of residence (signup requires providing a contact address and they pre fill using t…

> Never figured out how to use Hertzner. Wanted to try since they get such a good reputation on here, but they banned my account when their system presented no way for me to verify my identity. Is this something new? I (Norwegian) have been using Hetzner for 10+ years, and never had a problem, and never had to attest my identity. CurrentlyI have a four servers running there. The last one was set up approx. a year ago…

It's definitely not new, they required an id 20 years ago. (From EU citizens, so it's not about the country either).

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#75

Post by lelanthran »

nr2x wrote: post #67
lopkeny12ko wrote: post #59

I don't understand the hype around ARM64 in the server space. Is this just due to all the marketing from Apple around their proprietary M processors leaking into the enterprise market? The latest Xeon and EPYC offerings are very performance competitive, I doubt we need to overhaul and entire processor ISA paradigm for continued improvements.

For me at least, if I knew I was getting same performance for less energy I’d actually be willing to pay a bit more. Data centers are big polluters still. I think we likely can get to nearly 100% renewables in the non-distant future, and lower energy per compute unit is part of that.

> For me at least, if I knew I was getting same performance for less energy I’d actually be willing to pay a bit more.

Well if they're spending less to power my ARM machine, then they should damn well be charging me less to host it.

That's the best, and only, long term path towards more efficient compute.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#76

Post by aendruk »

I’ve never paid much attention to Hetzner but this interested me. Upon clicking the call to action in the announcement they blocked me with “Request on Hold - Suspicous Activity Detected”.

I have no interest in subjecting myself to this treatment.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#77

Post by cbdumas »

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #59

I don't understand the hype around ARM64 in the server space. Is this just due to all the marketing from Apple around their proprietary M processors leaking into the enterprise market? The latest Xeon and EPYC offerings are very performance competitive, I doubt we need to overhaul and entire processor ISA paradigm for continued improvements.

> Is this just due to all the marketing from Apple around their proprietary M processors leaking into the enterprise market?

That doesn't seem likely, as the release of AWS Graviton based instances predates the Apple M1 release by about two years

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#78

Post by sltkr »

solalf wrote: post #3

Could somebody walk me through why ARM based servers are so inexpensive compared to their x86 counterparts? Is performance much lower? 16 cores & 32gb of RAM for less than 25 euros seems like a bargain.

I would guess simpler CPU core architecture means more cores per die. Presumably it also means lower performance, but perhaps not by as much as you think, since typically the most performant CPUs aren't the most cost-effective.

Quick Googling shows:

  - Intel W9-3495X has 56 cores for $5889
  - AMD EPYC 64 has 64 cores for $4299
  - Ampera Altra M128-30 has 128 cores for $5800
The Altra uses about the same power as AMD, and much less than Intel, despite offering twice as many cores. So it stands to reason that you just get twice as many cores for the same money, even if you factor in power, cooling and maintenance costs.

Hetzer offers a 16 core AMD (v)CPU machine at 225% of the price, so that roughly works out.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#79

Post by [deleted] »

Galaco wrote: post #38

Never figured out how to use Hertzner. Wanted to try since they get such a good reputation on here, but they banned my account when their system presented no way for me to verify my identity. The required either PayPal or passport. I have no PayPal account, and their 3rd party verification system only allows passport from your country of residence (signup requires providing a contact address and they pre fill using t…

[deleted]

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#80

Post by derefr »

jonatron wrote: post #56
Galaco wrote: post #38

Never figured out how to use Hertzner. Wanted to try since they get such a good reputation on here, but they banned my account when their system presented no way for me to verify my identity. The required either PayPal or passport. I have no PayPal account, and their 3rd party verification system only allows passport from your country of residence (signup requires providing a contact address and they pre fill using t…

This has come up a few times on HN, if you search comments for "Hetzner fraud". The solution is to use a different provider if you can't use Hetzner.

I've seen the other side of this. Our SaaS (a data API) has a number of "customers" who attempt to use us (or our competitors; we're not special here) to power some data displays on their phishing-scam websites, to make them seem more legitimate.

We ban these people — they're violating our ToU by engaging in illegal activities. But they come back. With different names, different IPs, different browsers, different credit cards. They have complete identities to burn. (We spot the correlations anyway, along other dimensions I won't disclose here, and so can keep them out pretty effectively.)

And guess what? Very often, their requests are coming from Hetzner IP blocks.

I don't think the scammers have a direct business relationship with Hetzner, mind you. I think Hetzner tries just as hard as we do to stop these people from making use of their services. But I believe that these Hetzner boxes are either set up as exit nodes of one or more common VPN providers; or they're being registered for other purposes by other parties, and then resold on the secondary market on dark-web forums.

If I were a VPS provider, and I didn't want to support illegal activity, I'd probably just give up on providing service to individuals altogether, only taking corporate customers; and even then, requiring a DUNS number or something as an additional proof-of-work for that corporation, so that people can't just keep spinning up corporations in places where that's essentially free.

Hetzner hasn't gone that far; but it makes sense to me that if a user account is flagged as needing extended verification, and the ops person responsible for verifying the account takes a look at the user-lifecycle activity logs for the user, and sees that this user has: their IP coming from multiple places during registration vs login, their browser locale and timezone bouncing around between requests and set for settings uncommon to the country their IP is originating from, etc. — that the answer would be "ban" rather than "ask the user why the heck that's happening."

One time out of ten, the user is a real person doing something weird. The other nine times out of ten, the user is a scammer and is going to make up some story about being a real person doing something weird. Every scammer has their very own pool of man-hours, and if you're in the critical path for their scam, they can burn a number of those man-hours being really insistent that they're authentic. Until you let them in, and see that they immediately start up the same dumb phishing-scam bot script that all the other scammers purchased.

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