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Colorado passes agricultural Right to Repair

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Re: Colorado passes agricultural Right to Repair

#21

Post by TimTheTinker »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #18
voakbasda wrote: post #10

I suspect that John Deere and friends will find a way to challenge this in court and -- if they eventually lose -- find a way to maliciously comply with the law. Their behavior has been actively hostile to their customers for years, and they have zero incentive to change. Like Apple's repair kits mentioned in another comment, I suspect their strategy will involve providing tools that cost nearly as much to rent as it…

Name, shame, and industry blacklist Deere product managers. It's the only way. Stop acting like there's nothing that can be done.

Good coverage of the issue by news outlets, including naming John Deere specifically, would be far more effective not only at motivating Deere to improve their practices, but also helping the populace at large to understand the problem, build popular support for good legislation, motivating legislators to deal with the problem, and motivating other companies to avoid copying Deere's example.

Naming and shaming individuals (besides a CEO) within a company is unnecessary, and can cause destruction to lives, families, and communities that have nothing to do with the problem. It also overestimates the individual agency these people hold over what is most often a cultural and policy issue at a company.

Re: Colorado passes agricultural Right to Repair

#22

Post by m0llusk »

Right to repair is a great thing, but it seems like we need to be honest about this business and its customers. Agriculture, at least in the US, is primarily a government subsidized big business. Many if not most John Deere customers are corporations that like having their operating fleets be maintained and managed with help from the provider. The farmers getting screwed are smaller operators who are far less profitable for John Deere and really should seek or develop other options if at all possible.

Comparisons with Apple hardware are not very good because Apple is primarily a consumer brand. Apple does in a sense sell fleets to companies and schools, but most rely on other companies to configure and maintain their computing gear. The market for laptops is very different from the market for large tractors.

Re: Colorado passes agricultural Right to Repair

#23

Post by Gustomaximus »

What I don't understand is why a couple of the higher quality tractor companies have not started pushing hard to brand "we support repair" and having available online manuals and software to support this. This seems a perfect marketing/product platform for an underdog that also believes this.

Massey, Fendt or similar could really differentiate themself and take market share on the back of this I suspect.

Especially with online world having reached farmers as the dealer networks increasingly mean less when you can order equiptment and spares online so JD loses some of the strength they hold by their dominating physical presence alone.

Re: Colorado passes agricultural Right to Repair

#24

Post by donw »

Gustomaximus wrote: post #23

What I don't understand is why a couple of the higher quality tractor companies have not started pushing hard to brand "we support repair" and having available online manuals and software to support this. This seems a perfect marketing/product platform for an underdog that also believes this. Massey, Fendt or similar could really differentiate themself and take market share on the back of this I suspect. Especially w…

Excellent point.

Check out Project Farm on YouTube to get a sense of what the average farmer is like in terms of engineering mindset.

They would love this.

Farmers are smart. When your combine breaks during harvest, you can't just grab another or wait a couple of days for the repair guy to show up -- you need it fixed now. That's not easy.

Not to mention, understanding your soil, your crops, the weather, how they interact, how to handle everything from planting up to post-harvest processing... it's not an easy job.

And this starts at a young age, because all the kids help out on the farm, too. You know why licenses for vehicles aren't required on private property? Farms. Early-teenagers need to be able to drive around a truck, then a tractor, etc.

Re: Colorado passes agricultural Right to Repair

#25

Post by Dylan16807 »

voakbasda wrote: post #10

I suspect that John Deere and friends will find a way to challenge this in court and -- if they eventually lose -- find a way to maliciously comply with the law. Their behavior has been actively hostile to their customers for years, and they have zero incentive to change. Like Apple's repair kits mentioned in another comment, I suspect their strategy will involve providing tools that cost nearly as much to rent as it…

The problem with apple isn't really the kits, it's the price of parts and inability to stock them.

Re: Colorado passes agricultural Right to Repair

#26

Post by GalenErso »

donw wrote: post #24
Gustomaximus wrote: post #23

What I don't understand is why a couple of the higher quality tractor companies have not started pushing hard to brand "we support repair" and having available online manuals and software to support this. This seems a perfect marketing/product platform for an underdog that also believes this. Massey, Fendt or similar could really differentiate themself and take market share on the back of this I suspect. Especially w…

Excellent point. Check out Project Farm on YouTube to get a sense of what the average farmer is like in terms of engineering mindset. They would love this. Farmers are smart . When your combine breaks during harvest, you can't just grab another or wait a couple of days for the repair guy to show up -- you need it fixed now . That's not easy. Not to mention, understanding your soil, your crops, the weather, how they i…

Farmers also need to understand animal biology (for those who raise animals) and reproduction, the local, state, and national commodities market (and sometimes the international market too), pests and invasive species (plants, insects, and animals alike) and the diseases they can bring, and hydrology. A modern farmer is an engineer, an economist, a biologist and a wilderness expert all in one.

Re: Colorado passes agricultural Right to Repair

#27

Post by TaylorAlexander »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #14
oofta-boofta wrote: post #2

Good! A massive win for moving away from a throwaway society.

I'm pretty sure that John Deere tractors are not a throwaway item, even if the dealer is holding you hostage on a repair.

I suspect many of the parts on a John Deere tractor get thrown away when they could be repaired.

Re: Colorado passes agricultural Right to Repair

#28

Post by conradev »

voakbasda wrote: post #10

I suspect that John Deere and friends will find a way to challenge this in court and -- if they eventually lose -- find a way to maliciously comply with the law. Their behavior has been actively hostile to their customers for years, and they have zero incentive to change. Like Apple's repair kits mentioned in another comment, I suspect their strategy will involve providing tools that cost nearly as much to rent as it…

John Deere signed a memorandum of understanding in January: https://www.fb.org/news-release/afbf-signs-right-to-repair-m...

Re: Colorado passes agricultural Right to Repair

#30

Post by supernova87a »

Gustomaximus wrote: post #23

What I don't understand is why a couple of the higher quality tractor companies have not started pushing hard to brand "we support repair" and having available online manuals and software to support this. This seems a perfect marketing/product platform for an underdog that also believes this. Massey, Fendt or similar could really differentiate themself and take market share on the back of this I suspect. Especially w…

Maybe there is something about the agricultural tractor (or similar industry) sector where the amount of research and development, manufacturing, sales, support investment it takes, on top of the sales prices/duration, customer dynamic, product lifecycle, etc involved means that the few players who can do it need to earn some margin through service to stay alive profitably.

Of course, maybe they're just money grubbing capitalists.

But I think there's more factors than meets the eye, and this behavior is not without cause.

Otherwise, as you say, plenty of players should be clamoring to offer a fix-it-yourself brand that people would flock to and be loyal to.

Maybe sometimes there are real reasons for the way a market and a product are structured.

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