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Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

economist.com

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Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#371

Post by iavael »

jevgeni wrote: post #325
orbital-decay wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, what I hear is moving the goalposts until "it's irrelevant whether you did anything, if you lost it's your damn fault lmao". Same with Belarus 2020. Well, if I'm hearing it right, then good luck with that brush. It might be understandable, but that doesn't make it excusable.

Honestly, this playing the victim is at best getting tiring. You've ignored my comment to hear it as moving the goal posts. Again: only ca. 2% of the population are siloviki, who rely on the rest for support, for food, for logistics, for communication, IT support, etc., etc. If the protests fail, is because most of the 98% don't care, or snitch, or actively oppose the protest. That makes them culpable. A few complain…

So you are fine with idea that if Ukraine loses war then it's okay to turn back no it at that very moment, call ukranians aggressors and punish them?

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#373

Post by iavael »

FpUser wrote: post #42
Trias11 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any sane person who isn't a brain-washed z-patriot has already left Russia or at least staying quiet. At this point North Korea is a democracy compared to russia.

I recommend quitting theatrics. Yes Russia implementing absolutely awful laws. They do not yet send people to labor camps en masse and living standard is still much higher. They have quite a way to go down to NK levels. I hope that fucker Putin and his cronies gets wiped out before it happens. Also the West is not really looking forward to accept Russian refugees / dissenters. They do send them back.

Colonies in Russia are essentially labor camps. And mandatory work (e.g. making goods like uniform for army and police) is still an essential part of russian penitentiary system.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#374

Post by iavael »

koonsolo wrote: post #275
codedokode wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck standing up against million of well armed, well paid and well trained national guards.

"Well armed and well trained" Sure, we've seen plenty of those in Ukraine. Also "well intoxicated"

Really well armed and well trained elite police forces are not sent in Ukraine because they are needed in case of unrests. For battlefield there are poorly trained conscripts with rusty gear from 70s.

Dictators like Putin or Saddam save their best guard even in toughest moments of war, because they know that they can loose war but can still be in power if their guard can protect them from their political enemies.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#375

Post by iavael »

koonsolo wrote: post #278
codedokode wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they win?

The Ukrainians sure as hell won their Euromaidan.

Ukranian protesters had support from half of parliament, several independent oligarchs and even some part of government. Also they had logistic support from political organizations and also international support.

In Russia opposition has no allies in establishment, there are no independent oligarchs in the country, political organizations are destroyed and any Russian national by default has zero sympathy from the West now (frankly speaking even if one had a substantial support, it would be damaging for his political reputation in the country). There are no public institutions left in Russia that opposition can rely on, every activist is essentially alone against government machine.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#376

Post by iavael »

331c8c71 wrote: post #266
SXX wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think it's important what he did 20 years ago? Half of Russia population don't pay taxes and occasionally have no money to cover their utility bills. Most people outside of Moscow only earn $300-500 / month. Also do you reallt think it's a good idea to pay taxes in Russia at this moment? All these taxes gonna be used to kill children in Ukraine.

> Do you really think it's important what he did 20 years ago To the extent it might have influenced the ruling... > Half of Russia population don't pay taxes and occasionally have no money to cover their utility bills. Most people outside of Moscow only earn $300-500 / month. 50% would be an overstatement. It's normally deducted directly by the employer regardless of the salary so you don't see that money to start w…

> It's normally deducted directly by the employer regardless of the salary

That's why paying cash "in envelope" is a common practice in SMB. "Grey salary" as it's called there: minimal wage level part is payed officially, rest is not.

> People who don't pay utilities eventually get disconnected from electricity/gas etc.

That's more of exception than a rule. Huge debts for utilities (for 1 year of consumption or even more) are quite common. As also practice of "shame lists" in apartment lobbies with apartment numbers and sums of debt.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#377

Post by proletar666 »

gdy wrote: post #351
jnsaff2 wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saving the people of occupied territories from russian rape, murder, forceful deportation, looting of property, etc.

That's not how the life is in Crimea. Ukraine was 'saving' Crimeans by cutting water and electricity supply. As for DNR and LNR, it's as meaningful as saying that Russia is saving people in Ukraine from being burned alive by Ukrainian nationalists [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes#Trade_Union...

You seem to conveniently omit the fact that the first victims in Odessa on 2 May were on the Maidan side, 2 activists, Andrei Biryukov and Igor Ivanov. And that victims of the burning themselves were armed with incendiary weapons: https://youtu.be/FWBGM9G4kF8

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#378

Post by proletar666 »

gdy wrote: post #341
atemerev wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure (I am Russian, emigrated in 2005, never been in Russia since 2014). Here are some of the actual reasons: 1) Immigration is hard. Particularly when you are not from a well-developed country with a powerful passport. You will live on a borrowed time, where the host country will invent reasons to deport you (to Russia, of course, where you most probably will be jailed in no time). I live in Switzerland for 18 years…

"(to Russia, of course, where you most probably will be jailed in no time)" Only if you publicly protest against the war. "and you can’t go out" Really? Lots of opposition figures emigrated from Russia since the war started.

They just reinstated крепостное право, now one can't leave the country if a military recruitment office (военкомат) sent a summon letter (even if you don't receive it. You have to check yourself manually on a special website beforehand). Along with other restrictions like ban on transactions involving real estate (land, apartments, houses) and such.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#379

Post by gdy »

proletar666 wrote: post #377
gdy wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how the life is in Crimea. Ukraine was 'saving' Crimeans by cutting water and electricity supply. As for DNR and LNR, it's as meaningful as saying that Russia is saving people in Ukraine from being burned alive by Ukrainian nationalists [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes#Trade_Union...

You seem to conveniently omit the fact that the first victims in Odessa on 2 May were on the Maidan side, 2 activists, Andrei Biryukov and Igor Ivanov. And that victims of the burning themselves were armed with incendiary weapons: https://youtu.be/FWBGM9G4kF8

Classic victim blaming.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#380

Post by jevgeni »

iavael wrote: post #371
jevgeni wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, this playing the victim is at best getting tiring. You've ignored my comment to hear it as moving the goal posts. Again: only ca. 2% of the population are siloviki, who rely on the rest for support, for food, for logistics, for communication, IT support, etc., etc. If the protests fail, is because most of the 98% don't care, or snitch, or actively oppose the protest. That makes them culpable. A few complain…

So you are fine with idea that if Ukraine loses war then it's okay to turn back no it at that very moment, call ukranians aggressors and punish them?

I just read your comment and it makes no sense.

EDIT: I think I understand now, but the amount of brainworms you have to have to equate a victim with someone silently supporting the aggressor is pretty big. russians are not the victims here.

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