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The Free Software Foundation is dying

drewdevault.com

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Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#121

Post by noirscape »

halostatue wrote: post #119
noirscape wrote: post #79

The main problem the FSF runs into, over and over, is that they're barking up the wrong tree if their goal is political change (which it's at least stated to be). Drew doesn't really address this directly, although many of the things he points at I would say are related to this. RMS is a big reason why the FSF is the way it is ie. its why their site is a disorganized mess of philosophical ramblings, poorly organized…

FSFE is more effective in this case with it’s public code effort.

The FSFe is doing incredible work there, yes. They're not perfect as an organization (there was some weird shit with inequal pay a couple years ago), but in terms of actually making efforts to changes that matters, I would consider them far more effective than the FSF.

They're Europe focused though, and while that's not an issue for me, the US is still for now the prevailing legislative body when it comes to the territory of FOSS and it's hard to expect the European organization to take up the fight of the US FSF.

At the moment they're iirc not working with the US organization anymore because the FSF reinstated Stallman without any prior communication or warnings to them.

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#122

Post by npteljes »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #37

Good. Stallman and by extension the FSF are agenda-driven radicals. Following their guidelines ironically leaves the user with very little freedom.

Seems ironic, isn't it? In a complete anarchy, you'd have less freedom as you have now, despite the lack of law. But rules and law, while limiting freedom technically, are exactly the things that enable freedom. Because nature doesn't recognize freedom, and the boundaries that define it, and so, they are crossed all the time.

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#123

Post by rascul »

jmclnx wrote: post #105
no_time wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What FSF should do is work stop the move to secure boot. Already there are Intel Laptops being created that will not allow us to replace Windows with Linux or a BSD. Can you provide an example or article? I have not yet encountered an intel platform that refuses to erase the secure boot keys. That being said, I would not be surprised.

Let me google that for you https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=377054 There was an article on a new lenovo model that you cannot install linux on, but to lazy to look for it. Quote from a lonk: >Lenovo says Microsoft requires they block Linux from booting on such PCs. ... ... >This has nothing to do with better security. It is simply about restricting consumer choice by making it more difficult to install so…

The claim was:

> Already there are Intel Laptops being created that will not allow us to replace Windows with Linux or a BSD.

The Linux Mint forum post includes this:

> To be able to boot Linux on such PCs you need to either disable secure boot in the BIOS or you need to enable the "Allow Microsoft 3rd Party UEFI CA" option in the Security section of the BIOS.

Then if you follow the link to the document from Lenovo:

> Starting in 2022 for Secured-core PCs it is a Microsoft requirement for the 3rd Party Certificate to be disabled by default. This means that for any of these Lenovo platforms shipped with Windows preinstalled an extra step is needed to allow Linux to boot with secure boot enabled.

Following that, Lenovo even gives instructions how to do it.

So it seems clear to me that it's allowed and that this does not match the original claim.

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#124

Post by surgical_fire »

bo1024 wrote: post #49
GNUfanaticism wrote: post #15

>It’s time for Richard Stallman to go. >We need more leaders of color, women, LGBTQ representation, and others besides. The FSF is dying. What we need is women, people of color, minorities, and other people who have never played a major part in contributing, spreading or practicing free software ethos to lead the movement . There is nothing inherently wrong with diversity, but this is an attempt to spread an agenda,…

This comment implies that only white men have ever played a major part in the free software ethos, which is incorrect and offensive.

That's not really how I read it.

Many characteristics would be necessary to lead FSF. Gender, sexuality ot race are not important in this context.

By all means, if a person with the meaningful characteristics to lead belong to your preferred minority groups, that's awesome! But looking for a minority group first and the desired characteristics later definitely seems to be a roundabout way to push an agenda.

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#125

Post by ghusto »

bo1024 wrote: post #53
yarg wrote: post #27

> Reform the leadership. It’s time for Richard Stallman to go. > We need more leaders of color, women, LGBTQ representation, and others besides. Stallman is in many ways a problem - but the solution is finding technically and socially competent leadership with a vision that aligns with the core ideologies of the FSF and the ability to lay it out as a coherent long-term plan. Forced diversity has not ever and will not…

Technical and socially competent leadership is compatible -- actually, well-aligned -- with diverse representation.

> Technical and socially competent leadership is compatible -- actually, well-aligned -- with diverse representation

Reality begs to differ.

If they're well aligned, where are these people? Have they been oppressed by not being given a chance? Let's see where we are in 20 years when that argument can finally be put to rest (when's the last time you saw a positive _male_ role model in films or other pop-culture, tech-related or otherwise?).

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#126

Post by 542458 »

roenxi wrote: post #107
bo1024 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment implies that only white men have ever played a major part in the free software ethos, which is incorrect and offensive.

The FSF is based in Boston, US. Something like 75% of US programmers are male, around 65% white and a further ~20% Asian [0]. If we want the best advocate, assuming they hire somewhat locally, there is a 75% chance that candidate is male, and an 80% chance they are white or Asian. The FSF movement already struggles to make up numbers of people who actually care about freedom, it can't afford to be picky adding extra…

I don’t think being a Boston resident is a requirement. I believe some of the board members are already non-local (Henry Poole lives in California as far as I can tell, Odile Bénassy lives in France).

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#127

Post by worg »

jmclnx wrote: post #105
no_time wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What FSF should do is work stop the move to secure boot. Already there are Intel Laptops being created that will not allow us to replace Windows with Linux or a BSD. Can you provide an example or article? I have not yet encountered an intel platform that refuses to erase the secure boot keys. That being said, I would not be surprised.

Let me google that for you https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=377054 There was an article on a new lenovo model that you cannot install linux on, but to lazy to look for it. Quote from a lonk: >Lenovo says Microsoft requires they block Linux from booting on such PCs. ... ... >This has nothing to do with better security. It is simply about restricting consumer choice by making it more difficult to install so…

From the same forum post:

> To be able to boot Linux on such PCs you need to either disable secure boot in the BIOS or you need to enable the "Allow Microsoft 3rd Party UEFI CA" option in the Security section of the BIOS.

it's not like they're blocking completely the ability to install Linux, anyone installing Linux should be able to follow those steps. Don't get me wrong I'm no Lenovo/MS fan but spreading FUD is not the way

edit: formatting

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#128

Post by yarg »

kmeisthax wrote: post #118
yarg wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between organic and forced diversity. When someone starts out with bullet-point one devoted to orthogonal social issues and not the actual goals of the foundation and how to reach them, it's fairly clear where they stand.

"Orthogonal social issues?" So are we just going to pretend that unauditable, proprietary facial recognition software isn't being actively weaponized against minorities? Like, cops using secret rules to determine guilt would be considered dystopian basically anywhere.

Yes, the issues are completely orthogonal to the effective operation of an open source software foundation.

If you want to have a talk about the also completely unrelated issue of facial recognition, we can do that too.

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#129

Post by gavinhoward »

Whenever you're making an assertion that representation should be the top priority, you're saying that merit is not. That is not good. We need the best leaders for FOSS, whoever they are; their skin color, sex, and sexuality are secondary.

But about new licenses: I've written a few [1], and I'm currently getting them checked by a lawyer.

I think these licenses are an improvement, but feedback is welcome.

[1]: https://yzena.com/licenses/

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#130

Post by dagw »

cgio wrote: post #30

Maybe it’s dying because it already succeeded in its goals. That’s a good thing. From my myopic perspective, RMS is FSF. And he has changed the discussion around software forever. Now we need another kind of freedom, we feel it but cannot articulate it. And whoever articulates it, I wish them all the best, whether they do so under the banner of FSF or something else. One thing I am almost sure of is that whatever wat…

Maybe it’s dying because it already succeeded in its goals.

I'm pretty sure they don't see it that way. The last big ideological 'war' was between FSF and OSI and it's quite clear that FSF lost. Open source proponents successfully allied with and used the FSF the launch their own platform to achieve their goals. Once their goals where achieved they dropped the FSF in the dust. In fact the FSF lost so badly most people don't even remembers what they fought for or even that they lost.

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