Sun Tzu's chief virtue, and weakness, is brevity. Compared to Clausweitz, Sun Tzu would have been a Twitter guru, inviting the question: So, what?
[deleted]
Notes from a Sun Tzu Skeptic (2019)
81–90 of 211 posts
Re: Notes from a Sun Tzu Skeptic (2019)
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's why I don't understand why in the US, the president is also the top military commander. Somebody has to be in charge of the military. If that person is just someone promoted from within, you're never more than one person's decision from a coup d'etat, "A republic, if you can keep it". So, an elected leader it is. Of the three branches of the US government, only one is intended to provide an executive function,…
In Germany the (civilian) defense minister is the head of the armed forces. (Though I think that role might go to the chancellor in times of war. Not sure.)
According to the wiki, it's the chancellor in wartime (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundeswehr). Either way, it's a civilian position that's temporarily filled by the ruling government which was democratically elected.
Re: Notes from a Sun Tzu Skeptic (2019)
#83There is a reason people still read Sun Tzu 2500 years later, and it's not because he's been on a press tour promoting his book. The man was a consummate master of his art, if he was indeed one man. My favorite reading of The Art of War, because Baldermort has an awesome voice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDlW3WqXisM
> There is a reason people still read Sun Tzu 2500 years later
Because publishers are profit seeking and have marketing departments.
Re: Notes from a Sun Tzu Skeptic (2019)
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's why I don't understand why in the US, the president is also the top military commander. Somebody has to be in charge of the military. If that person is just someone promoted from within, you're never more than one person's decision from a coup d'etat, "A republic, if you can keep it". So, an elected leader it is. Of the three branches of the US government, only one is intended to provide an executive function,…
In Germany the (civilian) defense minister is the head of the armed forces. (Though I think that role might go to the chancellor in times of war. Not sure.)
In Spain it’s the King… anachronic af, I know.
Re: Notes from a Sun Tzu Skeptic (2019)
#85Sun Tzu's chief virtue, and weakness, is brevity. Compared to Clausweitz, Sun Tzu would have been a Twitter guru, inviting the question: So, what?
I can see it now: Sun Tzu's The Tweets of War
War is inevitable but I see 99% of generals doing it wrong.
Here is 10 tips how to win in every battle
Re: Notes from a Sun Tzu Skeptic (2019)
#86As both a former army officer as well as someone who appreciates historical Chinese, it pains me to say that I found it underwhelming. I’m not saying that any one on here is like this, but in my experience it def attracts a certain type who, among other things, have a zero sum, “business is war” mindset that’s a tad creepy. Unlike everyone I know who has actually served .
While you are correct that these sort of books can be taken too far (i.e. they are not an answer to everything) there is much value in studying these sorts of books (Chinese/Japanese/Indian etc.) since they are a repository of various stratagems/techniques/aphorisms/quotes which can be adapted to context (not necessarily explicit Warfare) to derive value. Human Nature has not changed much over the years though its external manifestations have. I also do not believe that you have to have served in the defense forces (which mainly focus on the mechanisms of Warfare) to understand them since they deal with general ideas/concepts/stratagems which are independent of a specific domain.
As an example, the quote Cast a Brick to Attract Jade from The 36 stratagems of War (https://changingminds.org/disciplines/warfare/36_strategems/...) is eminently usable in design/development/product plan meetings i.e. you present a simple and concrete idea as a starting point and then leave it to the attendees to build/modify/change it and come up with a best and final solution.
Re: Notes from a Sun Tzu Skeptic (2019)
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're not, really. The way that you advise the president on military issues is you give them prepackaged "decisions" that are limited variations on the same choice. The president's authority over the military is a legal fiction much like many other legal fictions that keep the system going.
I can guarantee you that there have been times where the top military brass walked into a meeting with the president with 3 options and left with an order to come up with something better. I have no insider knowledge but at the end of the day the president has the final say. Now I don't know how frequently the president overrides his military advisers but it must happen.
For an extreme version of this, see Truman relieving Gen. Douglas MacArthur of his command during the Korean War.
Re: Notes from a Sun Tzu Skeptic (2019)
#88As both a former army officer as well as someone who appreciates historical Chinese, it pains me to say that I found it underwhelming. I’m not saying that any one on here is like this, but in my experience it def attracts a certain type who, among other things, have a zero sum, “business is war” mindset that’s a tad creepy. Unlike everyone I know who has actually served .
Sun Tzu's work was aimed at nobled who had zero experience and knowledge in warfare; a lot of it is low-hanging fruit, but you have to build up the basis for these things like "make sure your soldiers have food" and "don't tell your opponent what you're up to" in these people. It's why I don't understand why in the US, the president is also the top military commander. I'm sure they have good advisors and the good one…
[flagged]
Re: Notes from a Sun Tzu Skeptic (2019)
#89I’m not sure how Sun Tzu is complete garbage when his strategies were vague and often not specific, so you can adapt them according to the situation To me the problem is that the study of war, like the study of economics or any other social study; isn’t a real science. There is no repeatable theoretical model, including The Art of War. There are no universal laws that always hold true in all situations.
> like the study of economics [...] There are no universal laws that always hold true in all situations I've got great news for you! There are universal economic laws that always hold true in all situations. For example, "man acts". You can't deny that, because denying it would be an act in itself, leading to a (performative) contradiction. From this law, and just a few others of a similar kind, you can build a whole…
You take 1000 economists and ask them for opinions on a certain problems, you will get hundreds if not thousand different solutions. If you do math say a million mathematicians/physicists, you will almost always get a few if not 1 solution to the problem. By the way, Nobel for economics isnt even part of original Nobel. It basically force fed into it and tag with Nobel label. Economics is essentially just common sense applicable at the specific time...at other times it will fail.
Re: Notes from a Sun Tzu Skeptic (2019)
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
In Germany the (civilian) defense minister is the head of the armed forces. (Though I think that role might go to the chancellor in times of war. Not sure.)
In Spain it’s the King… anachronic af, I know.
It's traditionally the head of state, so King makes sense. In Bulgaria the president is mostly a figurehead with very limited power (basically easily repeatable veto, appoint ambassadors and temporary cabinets when there's no active government pending elections), but is still the commander in chief of the armed forces.