As a descendant of Sun Tzu, I'm surprised to see a discussion about him at HN:)
Notes from a Sun Tzu Skeptic (2019)
21–30 of 211 posts
Re: Notes from a Sun Tzu Skeptic (2019)
#22Finally. I remember reading Sun Tzu and thinking "hmm all this stuff is either very specific to ancient China, or unsubstantiated". As in, everyone sounded like distilled wisdom, but it smelled. The thing that was missing I think was that normally when you read a text about something that's trying to make a general point, it cites a whole bunch of historical precedents. "Always drive deep into enemy territory, like X…
This is a modern way of thinking. Ancient wisdom never comes with citations. But I'm happy to be proved wrong.
Re: Notes from a Sun Tzu Skeptic (2019)
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think this is like applying the "If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?" logic to war; it's a multifaceted thing, you can do everything right and still lose. It wouldn't still be mandatory reading at war colleges the world over if it didn't still have merit, or if it had no merit to begin with.
> It wouldn't still be mandatory reading at war colleges the world over if it didn't still have merit, or if it had no merit to begin with. Spoken like someone with absolutely no idea how mandatory reading is chosen.
Okay let us suppose there are three probable reasons for such a book to be chosen as mandatory reading: because it is right, because it is wrong, or because it is historically important as a landmark in the history of military thought.
I believe it is the first of those three. Many books have been written since that are now outdated, while The Art of War is not.
Re: Notes from a Sun Tzu Skeptic (2019)
#24Re: Notes from a Sun Tzu Skeptic (2019)
#25As with all advice, context matters. It is good to know the rules, the best practices, the proven strategies. But it is also good to understand the context of those strategies to understand when the context has changed. SQL is clearly the right way to store large quantities of data (some would say the only way.) Until some folk realised their context was different, and NoSql was born. Strategy is hard because it play…
So: "Sun Tzu, Mayhaps dude had a point, ymmv ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
Re: Notes from a Sun Tzu Skeptic (2019)
#26There is a reason people still read Sun Tzu 2500 years later, and it's not because he's been on a press tour promoting his book. The man was a consummate master of his art, if he was indeed one man. My favorite reading of The Art of War, because Baldermort has an awesome voice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDlW3WqXisM
The article notes that Sun Tzu's celebrated victory over the Chu was very short-lived, since the Chu remnants promptly allied with the Qin and the Yue to roll them back within two years, and his Wu clan was entirely exterminated within three decades.
Without being familiar with the details this sounds as if they bit off more than they could chew (or invaded more than they could hold). Holding territory is way, way harder than winning it in the first place.
If your actions led to your own clan's erradication 30 years after the fact then tour actions might not have been the smartest (unless e.g. your clan was going to be erradicated either way and you managed to buy them time).
Re: Notes from a Sun Tzu Skeptic (2019)
#27Re: Notes from a Sun Tzu Skeptic (2019)
#28As both a former army officer as well as someone who appreciates historical Chinese, it pains me to say that I found it underwhelming. I’m not saying that any one on here is like this, but in my experience it def attracts a certain type who, among other things, have a zero sum, “business is war” mindset that’s a tad creepy. Unlike everyone I know who has actually served .
Re: Notes from a Sun Tzu Skeptic (2019)
#29As a descendant of Sun Tzu, I'm surprised to see a discussion about him at HN:)
As a descendant of somebody other than Sun Tzu, I’m not surprised to see it here. HN is pretty eclectic.
Re: Notes from a Sun Tzu Skeptic (2019)
#30Finally. I remember reading Sun Tzu and thinking "hmm all this stuff is either very specific to ancient China, or unsubstantiated". As in, everyone sounded like distilled wisdom, but it smelled. The thing that was missing I think was that normally when you read a text about something that's trying to make a general point, it cites a whole bunch of historical precedents. "Always drive deep into enemy territory, like X…
Of course, 2500 years later it can be a bit difficult to put these things into context. But isn't Sun Tzu actually frequently referring to other events in the Spring&Autumn period to illustrate his points?