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Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

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Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#311

Post by simplotek »

EricE wrote: post #305

There are fewer and fewer reasons to buy new PC hardware as the decades have marched on. CPUs and GPUs have been overpowered for all but niche markets - and yes, gaming is a niche market. I've been averaging 7 years or more for my machines for a long time now; that was bound to show up in PC sales at some point. And i think people are still failing to account for just how muc mobile has utterly taken over most normal…

> There are fewer and fewer reasons to buy new PC hardware as the decades have marched on.

If Apple provided a way to use Mac minis to serve as distributed compile caching and distributed build tool, I'd have a reason to buy some.

Also, mac minis are expensive when compared with other miniPCs in the market. There are some ryzen5/core i5 systems with 16 and 32GB of RAM shipping with Windows 11 being sold right now on Amazon for 300-500€. If all you want to do is run stuff in a browser and do work then you'd be hard pressed to find a reason to buy a Mac mini, let alone a Mac studio.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#312

Post by EricE »

danielrpa wrote: post #36
andyferris wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why a bad idea?

I've been using a Mac M1 for over a year at work because my company likes Mac. I particularly would love to have Windows as an option. I feel that everything is just a little harder and slower in MacOS vs Windows - one very obvious and memorable problem is the massive installation times for OS updates. Overall, as a result of a number of annoyances here and there, I'm less productive with a Mac despite its great hard…

Well Apple updates are far more infrequent than Microsoft with Windows so you are still probably way ahead :p

When prompted I just pick "Later" and my Mac updates at night. Automatically. When I'm not using it so unless it was going to take longer than the time I'm going to be sleeping, update length is a non-issue.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#313

Post by freeplay »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #281
freeplay wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, I think it's pretty obvious this has less to do with M1/M2 tech specs and more to do with the vast majority of Americans getting a couple checks from the government which basically cover the exact price of a new Macbook.

> the vast majority of Americans getting a couple checks from the government which basically cover the exact price of a new Macbook. Source? And source that they spent that income on MacBooks?

I know we are all very analytical on this site and love to comment "source?" any time someone infers something from a dataset, but this seems like one of those times we can easily correlate the two.

The lower class who needed those checks to pay rent and buy food did just that.

However there was a large portion of the population who did not lose their jobs and considered those stimulus checks "fun money." Many used it to purchase goods they typically wouldn't have 1k+ to spend on regularly.

Couple that with many working from home, their children going to school from home and needing a laptop, and the sheer boredom factor, I don't think it's a leap to correlate stimulus checks with a huge jump in Macbook sales given the time frame.

Again, you also have to factor in that the check was pretty much exactly what a new, entry-level (aka most popular SKU), Macbook Air would cost after taxes.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#314

Post by pg_1234 »

hbn wrote: post #178
traveler01 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally Apple users don't update their computers too often, and when they released the M1 models a lot of people had models pre-2016 that needed upgrading (since pos-2016 models sucked balls). So, part of that unusual demand was also customers finally upgrading their old MacBooks.

Also people that didn't need to upgrade their machines upgraded anyway cause the M1 jump was so significant. I was supplied a decently-specced late-2019 16-inch i9 MBP for work when I started in mid-2020. Basically about the best Intel MBP that ever got released. Then the M1's came, I got a 14-inch base model M1 Pro (which I calculate to have cost about 1/2 the price work paid for my machine) and it runs circles arou…

Actually, if you bought an entry level m1 Air, there's probably not going to be a reason to upgrade for a while.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#315

Post by propogandist »

ta1243 wrote: post #132
propogandist wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A thinkpad would offer great build quality, although some of that is slipping due to Lenovo’s cost cutting strategies. Unfortunately, today’s Windows OS is spyware, especially Windows 11, so the entire OS needs to be removed, if you want a good machine which fires not constantly send usage data to the Azure mothership, or some 3rd party.

People have being lamenting the death of thinkpad for nearly 20 years. Lenovo purchase in 2005, keyboard changes in 2012, etc It's still here, and still solid

I’ve been using thinkpad for over a decade and have noticed decline in quality on hardware and even firmware/software on the device. They have been regularly making the keyboard worse and it’s gotten down to 1.5mm of key travel or worse from about 2mm prior (1.8mm more recently). This is in addition to the chicklet keyboard style, which also sucks compared to the keyboard style they had before (W520 and older)

It still has some of the best build quality overall, among PC manufacturers.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#316

Post by KSS42 »

GeekyBear wrote: post #296

Given the fact that process node changes are coming more slowly, and TSMC's delayed 3nm node has finally hit volume production, I have a pretty good reason not buy in at the tail end of 5nm. > Apple Has Procured TSMC's Entire First Run of 3nm Chips https://www.extremetech.com/computing/343291-apple-has-procu... I think lower sales are a result of the previous pandemic purchase spike, along with the M1 upgrade spike,…

It's a bit odd to me basing a purchasing decision on process nodes. I would consider overall product features rather the foundry or foundry node in of it self.

In fact, I'd rather being inclined towards n-1 node and not take the risk of being first for high volume manufacturing for a new node.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#317

Post by hbn »

muro wrote: post #306
hbn wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also people that didn't need to upgrade their machines upgraded anyway cause the M1 jump was so significant. I was supplied a decently-specced late-2019 16-inch i9 MBP for work when I started in mid-2020. Basically about the best Intel MBP that ever got released. Then the M1's came, I got a 14-inch base model M1 Pro (which I calculate to have cost about 1/2 the price work paid for my machine) and it runs circles arou…

I had a similar i9 16'' MBP. Lasted 2h on video conference. New 14'' lasts about 9h. The Intel MBP tried to be too thin and failed at being a good laptop for work. It was still better than the previous generation with the garbage keyboard.

Yeah I'm glad I managed to just barely dodge the bad keyboard era of Macs.

I generally use an external keyboard anyway (just Apple's Magic Keyboard) but for the times I do move away from my desk it's nice to type on a keyboard where you can actually feel the travel unlike those god forsaken butterfly switches.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#318

Post by Maursault »

hbn wrote: post #178
traveler01 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally Apple users don't update their computers too often, and when they released the M1 models a lot of people had models pre-2016 that needed upgrading (since pos-2016 models sucked balls). So, part of that unusual demand was also customers finally upgrading their old MacBooks.

Also people that didn't need to upgrade their machines upgraded anyway cause the M1 jump was so significant. I was supplied a decently-specced late-2019 16-inch i9 MBP for work when I started in mid-2020. Basically about the best Intel MBP that ever got released. Then the M1's came, I got a 14-inch base model M1 Pro (which I calculate to have cost about 1/2 the price work paid for my machine) and it runs circles arou…

> Also people that didn't need to upgrade their machines upgraded anyway cause the M1 jump was so significant.

People keep perpetuating this myth, but the only significant jump in performance from x86 was with the Air. With all other models, it was always as Apple does with new models, and what we should have come to expect (yet we always expect more for some reason and there is always disappointment at the performance increases of new models), which is incremental performance improvements. What was amazing about M1 was that Apple switched platforms without missing a step. In general, the first M1 models where only incrementally more performant than the immediately previous x86 models they replaced, just like the M2 models are only an incremental improvement over the M1 models they replaced, and just like every new hardware release from Apple... a fractional step forward and never giant leaps and bounds. After all, that's probably impossible, as Apple's new hardware is always cutting edge at release (except for the 1999/2000 G4 tower fiasco when the processor speed actually went down for one release).

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#319

Post by simplotek »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #143
kmlx wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or a PC in general: > Global PC shipments tumbled to 56.9 million in the first quarter, down 29% from the same period a year earlier https://www.wsj.com/articles/pc-shipments-fall-29-led-by-dro...

Yeah, that's my bigger worry: that "desktop" (and then "laptop") are going to become niche platforms that only old-timers use. I dread our only-phone future.

> (...) "desktop" (and then "laptop") are going to become niche platforms (...)

Will desktop and laptops become niche, or are smartphones/tablets finding a far broader and popular market?

You can grab your smartphone and even tablet while you're riding the subway/train/bus/whatever, but you would never use a desktop I'm that scenario. Same goes for the line in your supermarket, a quick trip to the restroom, during lunch, etc.

The smartphone didn't replaced the desktop. It replaced the newspaper/magazine/mobile phone

The truth of the matter is that the smartphone form factor is far more suited for a broader range of usages than your desktop/laptop, and the combination of those use patterns with technology limitations do warrant specialized app life cycles and UX patterns. Desktop/laptops are suited for entirely different use patterns.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#320

Post by sitkack »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #56
sitkack wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great synopsis. Amazing machines, but the price climbs like a rocket as everyone else sinks back down to earth. And AMD Ryzen mobile cpus give M a run. I don't understand M2 at all. And I say this from an M1 Max. I had hoped that M2 was going to be as drastic an increase as the M1 was, but nope.

Genuinely interested why you expected an iterative change (M1 to M2) to be as drastic as an architecture change (Intel to Apple Silicon)? I have an M1 Max MBP and an M2 Air - both machines are great, I can’t tell the difference between the chips on short work loads but the M2 Air form factor is the best Mac I’ve had (15 year Mac user so I’ve got a few to compare it to)

I wasn't expecting Apple to follow an Intel tick-tock model, they had ground to makeup against Intel for stagnating for so long. M2 is an incremental improvement, and not by much. Given how small it was, they should have phased out M1 and just silently-ish slipped M2 into the stream. Push the remaining M1s into ipads and low end macbook airs.

They could have pulled off another step function, widening the path to main memory, more cache, more efficiency cores, doubled the width to the SSDs. There is about 18 months of time between front end design that goes into the next version. The chip design is cut off before everything you want to go in, goes in. That makes it into V2 before V1 has even shipped. It isn't until V3 that one gets to incorporate changes from the field into the next chip design.

Basically, I was hopeful that Apple chip dev team was going to go as hard as possible to gain distance against the competition, but they pulled the MBA maximum market extraction play but the market softened and the perf increase wasn't there. They bet wrong.

Fingers crossed M3 is the next step function.

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