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Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

bloomberg.com

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Re: Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

#211

Post by sjy »

JellyYelly wrote: post #177
loun wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here it is from the ATO: https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Fringe-benefits-tax/Types-of... It came into effect a few months ago, but was back dated to 1 July 2022.

I think the original comment is misleading. As far as I can tell you need your employer to buy the EV for you; and then they don't have to pay Fringe Benefits Tax on it. This might benefit people who get a "company car" but I don't know of anyone who has gotten a fringe benefit as large as a car from their employer before. I don't doubt it happens but I doubt it helps anyone except employees and employers who could c…

It’s common – you accept a reduced salary in exchange for the fringe benefit. It works particularly well for FBT-exempt employers like charities and state health departments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salary_packaging

Re: Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

#212

Post by nl »

SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #58
whatever1 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quadruple the energy price in return for replacing coal plants with junk batteries.

Installing a battery in South Australia did not lead to to a quadrupling of national energy prices. The cost of energy globally has shot up since 2020, and Australia's spot prices are based on the global market. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PNRGINDEXM Energy independence in the form of renewables is now more advantageous than ever. Tethering your economy to global price hikes like this is a vulnerable position…

Australia's spot prices aren't based on the global market.

They are based on the (Australian) national energy market (NEM) which sets price based on supply and demand across South Eastern Australia (WA and NT aren't in the NEM)

Re: Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

#213

Post by cbmuser »

No, they aren’t quitting coal in record time. They are just planning to and they’re far away from having achieved that.

A quick look on »Electricity Maps« proves that the article’s claim is wrong.

If there is any country in the world that achieved a coal exit in record time, it’s France with the »Messmer Plan«.

Re: Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

#214

Post by Cthulhu_ »

rippercushions wrote: post #32

Australia also has a remarkable tax incentive that lets you buy EVs basically tax free (fringe benefits tax exemption for novated leases, in bureaucratese). Basically, instead of paying $70k for a Tesla post-tax, you can get it deducted directly from your paycheck for around $45k pretax. The exact math depends on your income, and perversely enough the subsidy increases the more you earn and the higher your taxes, but…

The Dutch tax incentives were quite attractive, especially on lease cars, but it's been (being) dialed way back because it's costing the government too much income.

Re: Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

#215

Post by ehnto »

sjy wrote: post #210
ehnto wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuel excises do not get allocated directly to some kind of "road budget", they go into general revene. Almost all of it can be accounted for in corresponding fuel tax credits, three quarters of which go to mining companies. From memory the difference in 2019 census was like 100mil, so 7.8billion came in from fuel excise, 7.7billion went back out in fuel tax credits. In essence, everyone pays for federal roads, road u…

In 2021-22, fuel tax raised $18.2 billion, of which $6.89 billion (38%) was returned as fuel tax credits. https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_depart...

Oh I was way off, I doubt 2019 was much different. I'll adjust my parent comment.

Re: Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

#216

Post by danielheath »

einpoklum wrote: post #205
stubish wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is Salary Sacrifice, where an employer agrees to swap salary for some non-cash reward. Employee gets less cash and the benefit (eg. a car). Employer pays Fringe Benefits tax on the benefit, employee doesn't pay tax on the salary they sacrificed. The trick is that there is no fringe benefits tax on electric cars, in one of the few ways Australia is actually promoting them. https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Fringe-ben…

For people living in cities/towns, how much of an option is it to go car-less? Is it more like, say, Dutch cities, or more like in the US? Anyway, whenever I hear talk of promoting EVs without mass transit being mentioned together with it, my instinct is to assume it's some sort of an upwards-transfer-of-wealth scheme in which richer people get subsidized.

It's not quite as extreme as the US, in the city center you can manage okay without, but it's mostly not an option.

Re: Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

#217

Post by Ntrails »

einpoklum wrote: post #205
stubish wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is Salary Sacrifice, where an employer agrees to swap salary for some non-cash reward. Employee gets less cash and the benefit (eg. a car). Employer pays Fringe Benefits tax on the benefit, employee doesn't pay tax on the salary they sacrificed. The trick is that there is no fringe benefits tax on electric cars, in one of the few ways Australia is actually promoting them. https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Fringe-ben…

For people living in cities/towns, how much of an option is it to go car-less? Is it more like, say, Dutch cities, or more like in the US? Anyway, whenever I hear talk of promoting EVs without mass transit being mentioned together with it, my instinct is to assume it's some sort of an upwards-transfer-of-wealth scheme in which richer people get subsidized.

You're right, and I hate it for that reason.

However there are not many other levers to be pulled, and any price reduction in what are expensive vehicles will benefit the wealthy.

The obvious alternative (make ice vehicles more expensive) will actively hurt the poorer car owners more.

I honestly don't see obvious better ways to drive ev uptake

Re: Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

#218

Post by john_the_writer »

Wait.. so we're going to stop shipping millions of tons of coal to China. A country that accounts for 20% of our GDP. We're not even going to scratch the coal off the walls. Sill article, that really equates to blowing a raspberry at a bon fire.

Re: Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

#219

Post by nl »

bblpeter wrote: post #164
flakeoil wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CO2 in the air is damaging all life on earth, while a lithium mine at most damages the local area around the mine. It's probably much better to have a few local "dead" spots than a complete planet out of whack. And as a sibling comment said, lithium can be recycled.

> lithium can be recycled It can’t. This is an extremely energy intensive process that produces toxic waste products. It’s a fantasy.

There are major listed companies doing lithium recycling in Melbourne: https://www.reuters.com/technology/lithium-australia-signs-l...

Re: Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

#220

Post by nl »

panick21_ wrote: post #200
chii wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their geography is actually fantastic for it their demographic sparsity on the other hand, is not fantastic for it. You want high usage for rail. Unfortunately, there's not really enough people travelling to make it a profitable venture imho. Between sydney and melbourne, it's _just_ barely in the range for a flight, and so a rail will not beat it on convenience. But there's no destination closer!

Having something that is incredibly useful doesn't have to be profitable. High speed rail is infrastructure that will serve you well for literally the next 100+ years. And as you improve your local rail network and amount of connections to that high speed rail, its a no brainer.

There's literally an episode of the satirical comedy "Utopia" about how this is untrue and yet keeps getting raised every election.
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