Earlier quoted context omitted.
At what point do we allow people (in this case the Iranian regime) to have free will / self agency? And also - we usually don't allow ourselves to go 50 years back to explain someone's behavior. At least in court - that kind of testimony wouldn't have much value.
US Courts (and others) will lock up or send to death row some on evidence that they killed someone 50 years ago (and more) .. murder has no statute of limitations. US actions set the conditions (a foreign puppet ruler) for a people's overthrow which itself was usurped by the worst form of theocrats (your "Iranian Regime") who maintain power by murder (public hangings in squares, etc) .. and act which, again, US Court…
Iran installs cameras in public places to identify, penalise unveiled women
211–217 of 217 posts
Re: Iran installs cameras in public places to identify, penalise unveiled women
#212Morality aside, does this surprise anyone? All countries use cameras do enforce their laws, why would Iran be different? The problem here is Iran, cameras have nothing to do with it.
Cameras used for omnipresent government surveillance absolutely do have something to do with aiding the targeting of political dissidents. That said, I agree it is not surprising to anyone here. I hope more people get clued in.
Re: Iran installs cameras in public places to identify, penalise unveiled women
#213Just to point out: The "on device" and "private" CSAM detection christian politicians push would trivially be able to be used for this as well. Before anyone says "but CSAM is illegal", in Iran the violating the "hajib law" is definitionally illegal.
Poll: you are reading this comment on HN. You see "CSAM". Do you know what it means, without looking it up?
CSAM is alas a fairly well understood term of art in security and cryptography circles, for those with the good fortune to not know have such familiarity, it means child abuse.
Re: Iran installs cameras in public places to identify, penalise unveiled women
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
This reminds me of the "guns don't kill people" argument. Surveillance cameras have everything to do with consolidating power into fewer and fewer hands. Therefore fewer voices of dissent on the levers of power. Iran is going through a demographic shift. The protests and strikes are evidence of a desire for change. With tools like this even small acts of defiance become higher risk.
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Re: Iran installs cameras in public places to identify, penalise unveiled women
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
US Courts (and others) will lock up or send to death row some on evidence that they killed someone 50 years ago (and more) .. murder has no statute of limitations. US actions set the conditions (a foreign puppet ruler) for a people's overthrow which itself was usurped by the worst form of theocrats (your "Iranian Regime") who maintain power by murder (public hangings in squares, etc) .. and act which, again, US Court…
The current Iranian regime maintains power because Iranians support it. No regime rules without a sufficient fraction of the populace supporting it. The US actions were many decades ago. Blaming the US for current affairs in Iran is like blaming the British for problems in the US today.
Some Iranians love their government! This is true in every country. On the whole, though, this is a gross mischaracterization.
Iran has been having enormous countrywide protests and strikes for the last several years. The scale of these cannot be understated. Protests in every city and town, and many small villages, across the entire country, for months and months on end.
Over 20,000 Iranians have been arrested in the most recent wave of protests, and somewhere between 500 and 5,000 have been killed since September 2022. The government steals people's corpses and buries them in secret so that the true death toll is hidden.
Iran has the largest standing military in the Middle East. About a third of the military is the IRGC, who is sworn protect not the people or national sovereignty, but rather to the Supreme Leader and the Islamic Republic, and is frequently deployed domestically. They have been instrumental in crushing protests, going as far as shelling their own villages with artillery to quell dissent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahsa_Amini_protests
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Iranian_food_protests
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%932020_Iranian_prot...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019_Iranian_gene...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011–2012_Iranian_protests
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Iranian_presidential_elec...
Re: Iran installs cameras in public places to identify, penalise unveiled women
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
The current Iranian regime maintains power because Iranians support it. No regime rules without a sufficient fraction of the populace supporting it. The US actions were many decades ago. Blaming the US for current affairs in Iran is like blaming the British for problems in the US today.
> The current Iranian regime maintains power because Iranians support it. Some Iranians love their government! This is true in every country. On the whole, though, this is a gross mischaracterization. Iran has been having enormous countrywide protests and strikes for the last several years. The scale of these cannot be understated. Protests in every city and town, and many small villages, across the entire country, f…
Regardless, that huge military you refer to in Iran is composed of... Iranians. They're not foreign oppressors. If the Iranian people don't want these village-shelling assholes ruling over them, they need to stand up and do something about it. These soldiers live somewhere, and have families somewhere. No regime can stay in power without military support.
Anyway, back to my point: Iran's current problems aren't America's fault. Iranians are doing this to themselves, just like Afghanistan's people are oppressing themselves.
Re: Iran installs cameras in public places to identify, penalise unveiled women
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
Poll: you are reading this comment on HN. You see "CSAM". Do you know what it means, without looking it up?
That's a fair point, alas I can't edit my original comment anymore. CSAM is alas a fairly well understood term of art in security and cryptography circles, for those with the good fortune to not know have such familiarity, it means child abuse.
And like Iranian laws of public decency, CSAM has it's "oh my god think of the children!" central case that is a reprehensible crime. Nobody disagrees with this. Of course, there's a few cracks already: a number of state governments are trying to classify comic book depictions of LGBTQ, even textual ones, as CSAM. You can even vaguely see the argument, the idea being that this encourages children to engage in such acts.
The problem is that CSAM laws are perfect for this use case. They're absolutely perfect for repression! After all, we can never have a frank discussion of what CSAM is, based on the actual material, for obvious reasons. We can never have the citizenry openly discuss what material gets added to the list, and what does not get added to the list, so we are 100% dependent on politically not-quite-elected people with agendas deciding what's on the list.
Furthermore, one can quickly expose the motives behind CSAM scanning. Is it to help children ... or not? Look at what it's being used for, what these laws effectively do. Obviously it's being used to find children, who are of course in most cases the victim of very minor abuse, or of mistakes, and then placed in the care of CPS. Now you can quickly differentiate motives:
1) if the intention is to help those children, we would make damn sure those children, from that point forward, are treated better than they were at home
2) if the intention is repression, societal control, ... they totally would not care about the treatment of the children found
We all know how CPS treats children. It most definitely does not protect children in their care against sexual abuse, for example. Something like half those children does not go to school at all. They have no real future (yes, thankfully there are exceptions). There is a Netflix series "Young and locked up" that is, among others, about what happens to children who protest their treatment by CPS by running away. Go and look.
Or look at "Short Term 12" where a victim of child abuse is depicted. The victim, nearly adult tries to get out from "protection", constantly explaining how her life at home (presumably/allegedly WITH abuse) was so much better than her environment in CPS, and eventually returns to "home", where she was abused and destroys and rages. It is left in the middle if she wants revenge for abuse ... or is taking revenge for getting her into CPS. In an interview the director points out that this vagueness about her motives, whether they're against abuse or against CPS, is not an accident.
One kid, because he's about to "graduate" from CPS (dumped homeless on the street), tries to commit suicide, because of what he knows his future is. In commentary, it is made very clear that the kid is correct about his future.
And of course, there's many stories in the press that this effectively encourages child abuse. After all, CPS in the US is a horrible punishment FOR CHILDREN, worse than jail in some cases. Which of course means it's net effect is to strongly encourage children to simply accept abuse if they've ever seen CPS in action. And, of course, CPS is completely losing the fight against everything they're supposedly fighting, from sexual abuse to suicide, which of course is completely coincidental. Children FEAR state help against sexual abuse much more than they fear the abuse in the US (not that the situation in, say, France, is any different). And frankly, it's hard to argue this fear is anything but justified.
So, frankly, you cannot trust government with CSAM scanning, and there's no reason to. It's the perfect instrument of repression, we would not even know if it was used for that, and if you look at the full picture of CSAM scanning, including enforcement, the argument that it's there to protect children is ridiculous.