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Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

bloomberg.com

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Re: Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

#161

Post by riffraff »

pgeorgi wrote: post #153
riffraff wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The danger is, when you have less energy, your industries move to countries where they can consume/emit, and you become a vassal state of those countries. "Just" add carbon tariffs, which is what the eu was planning to do on steel, for example.

"Planning to do" sounds like it won't happen. https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/green-taxation-0/carbo... gives October 2023 as a start date.

thanks, I only used the past because I remember this was in the works but did not follow the development. Glad to know it is in force already.

Re: Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

#162

Post by bblpeter »

cesnja wrote: post #132
bblpeter wrote: post #127

Quitting coal mining in exchange for lithium mining? That’s like saying an addict is healthy because he quit heroin in exchange for being hooked on fentanyl.

Do you know that after coal is burned, it’s gone?

Do you know that after your lithium battery degrades, it’s toxic waste?

Re: Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

#163

Post by bblpeter »

deeviant wrote: post #130
bblpeter wrote: post #127

Quitting coal mining in exchange for lithium mining? That’s like saying an addict is healthy because he quit heroin in exchange for being hooked on fentanyl.

It's actually like quitting heron for pot. Coal is vastly more damaging.

I assume you don’t live near a lithium mine

Re: Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

#164

Post by bblpeter »

flakeoil wrote: post #152
bblpeter wrote: post #127

Quitting coal mining in exchange for lithium mining? That’s like saying an addict is healthy because he quit heroin in exchange for being hooked on fentanyl.

CO2 in the air is damaging all life on earth, while a lithium mine at most damages the local area around the mine. It's probably much better to have a few local "dead" spots than a complete planet out of whack. And as a sibling comment said, lithium can be recycled.

> lithium can be recycled

It can’t. This is an extremely energy intensive process that produces toxic waste products.

It’s a fantasy.

Re: Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

#165

Post by cjrp »

gambiting wrote: post #142
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, its because in a higher tax braket you pay more tax its the sane in britain - if you earn $200,000 income-tax-free means 50% off, but if you earn $20,000. it means like 5% off Also in Uk id you want to buy a e car, you get a grant of a few grand, if you want an e motorbike you get like $300, and if you want an ebike, the most wco friwndly option, you fuck right off

>>and if you want an ebike, the most wco friwndly option, you fuck right off That's absolutely not correct, the tax subsidy for buying bikes and ebikes in this country is bonkers and better than pretty much anywhere else. If you have any job you can always buy any bike(including an ebike) through the cycle to work scheme meaning it's deducted from your salary pre-tax (meaning that effectively it's a deduction from yo…

Exactly, with no benefit in kind (unlike an EV which attracts 2% at the moment and increases by 1%/year from 2025).

Re: Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

#166

Post by gdy »

erentz wrote: post #52
gdy wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

For others, not you because you're a troll, I will clarify: Glory to Ukraine is a simple formulation of words that cannot be owned by any particular group, and to suggest its a Nazi phrase is russian propaganda. The phrase first came to use amongst students in Kharkiv at the end of the 19th century and wider use during the War of Independence from 1917-1921. All before the Nazi party in Germany was created and before…

[flagged]

Re: Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

#167

Post by nasmorn »

rippercushions wrote: post #32

Australia also has a remarkable tax incentive that lets you buy EVs basically tax free (fringe benefits tax exemption for novated leases, in bureaucratese). Basically, instead of paying $70k for a Tesla post-tax, you can get it deducted directly from your paycheck for around $45k pretax. The exact math depends on your income, and perversely enough the subsidy increases the more you earn and the higher your taxes, but…

In Austria we have much the same but luxury car limit has been 40k since like 2 decades. Which is an utter joke in 2023 because you can buy like 3 EVs under 40k list price.

Re: Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

#168

Post by throwaway2037 »

IIAOPSW wrote: post #91
andrewstuart wrote: post #54

Yeah but Australia also happily digging vast quantities of coal out of the ground and selling it to India and China and elsewhere, utterly dwarfing any local cutbacks in usage. A land of opportunity (for the OzzieGarchs) and hypocrisy (for the politicians).

So. You can't solve everything at once, and you can't solve anything by being the noble idiot in the iterated prisoners dilemma. India and China will figure out a sustainable replacement in their own time. They have a much larger population inertia and thus it takes more time to phase out and replace things. At the same time, Australia will eventually phase out and replace those mining jobs.

You make good points. I'm not so hopeless. China and India in aggregate are expanding wind and solar power at a staggering rate. (India already has the world's single largest installation with more being planned.) Yes, in the short term, both India and China need a lot of coal for power and steel production. In the medium term, that will taper off as wind and solar (any _maybe_ nuclear) provides a greater share of electricity.

More details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_by_country

Re: Australia is quitting coal in record time thanks to Tesla

#170

Post by throwaway2037 »

0xy wrote: post #147
desmond373 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully it will mean more local solar off grid setups, more heat pumps and better thermal insulation. People need to start being more efficient with the energy they use. The increase in cost will help with that in some cases.

Should the message to poor people, who are getting destroyed with very high energy costs, be "just spend $10,000 on solar"? Environmentalists are pretty out of touch when they throw poor people under the bus and tell them to just buy a $50,000 entry-level Tesla or a $10,000 entry-level solar system. They'll simply vote for populism if they are bled further, and price rises are a certainty with expensive renewable 'so…

You make good points. I wish govts in wealthy countries would offer more zero rate loans or grants to low income people to improve the energy efficiency of their homes. It's a win-win: That means low income people lower their CO2 footprint and their incomes rise. For low income people, usually that gets spent right back into the economy, further boosting GDP.

If you look closely at the heat pump rebates in the UK, it is roughly 50% the upfront cost for average installations. That leaves an upfront payment of 5,000 GBP or more. There is just no way that middle class and below will have that money in savings. A better idea: Provide zero interest loans. Whatever is saved on energy bills can be used to pay down the loan. After 10-20 years, it should payoff the entire loan with a huge benefit for everyone.

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