Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I expect the company will face a mass lawsuit from Tesla EV owners Doubt it. Tesla still hasn't really faced any consequences for selling FSD capabilities that don't yet exist, and for a lot of money. They haven't faced any real consequences for removing capabilities from their customers' cars with no renumeration. Tesla owners are a loyal bunch and forgive a lot.
Not sure what capabilities you think don't exist, everything I paid for is working on my car right now.
Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars
511–520 of 521 posts
Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars
#512This has been the number one thing stopping me from getting a Tesla. I can't believe how little privacy concerns have come up with them. Until I can have fine-grained control of what data gets sent to the mothership, or opt out entirely, I can't see myself buying one.
You know you can just touch a toggle on the UI to turn on/off data sharing? You can opt-out entirely too, but you won’t get software updates.
Data Sharing you can turn off, but Data Sharing is different from data sharing as a concept. The telematics appear to get sent regardless of what you do. It seems they intentionally chose this Data Sharing label to deceive people into thinking that all data sharing would be turned off.
Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars
#513Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think we'll start to see ICE-to-EV conversion kits become more popular over the next decade or so. So you may get your wish, just not with a brand-new car.
I think that's a pipe dream. Changing the powerplant on a car is not cheap at all, and thats when you are doing a 1 to 1 swap with something the car is built to handle. The battery array needs to go someplace too and it is quite large and heavy.
ICE to EV has been around for a while before EV’s were mainstream and was much more expensive ultimately than buying a new Tesla, with significantly lower construction quality and performance results.
Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars
#514Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google's was a rogue employee that was caught. Tesla seems to be a cultural problem where employees think it's OK.
> Google's was a rogue employee that was caught. Tesla seems to be a cultural problem where employees think it's OK. While having it be ok as corporate culture is a bit worse, fundamentally the problem is that private personal data is available to these corporations so at that level it is the same problem. The only systems which are safe are those which either never send private data outside of local (local to the us…
Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars
#515Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is there a way to verify that all data sharing is turned off?
What would satisfy you that this was the case? Third parties have analyzed the firmware and sniffed the traffic logs on their network to confirm it. You could go as far as to snip the LTE antenna.
The biggest part of my question and what holds me up the most, if the entity was able to verify the metadata from a certain application/process on Infotainment - what if the manufacturer enforces the opt out at the server level? What if it's a server that Tesla doesn't own and belongs to a company are selling their data to? I could go on and on with these questions. The truth is that nothing should satisfy you if you simply opt out from a button on the Infotainment system.
My last position involved creating and enforcing security specs at one of the biggest auto manufacturers on what was then fairly cutting edge Infotainment systems. I also did MITM stuff to verify encryption of third party applications from suppliers. This was something I did on the side, not instructed, as protecting customer data was very important to me. One of my least favorite pastimes was arguing with managers over customer data and opt out/opt in. You may or may not be surprised about the rhetoric of the auto manufacturers - they don't look at it as the customer's data. It's their data and you are a product they can keep making money from, long after you bought the car. I lost these battles, and was one of the bigger reasons I left the company.
The only solution is to remove the Infotainment system from the car totally. Removing the antenna won't work on it's own. They have auto connecting WiFi's, bluetooth, etc.
Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars
#516Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right, so the problem is still private companies not putting in the effort to build in privacy to prevent this. For physical film it’s hard, but for software you should at the very least record access to personal data and audit it to make sure people actually need it and aren’t abusing whatever permissions they are using to get the data.
The employees in this case aren’t going looking where they weren’t supposed to. This isn’t an auditing problem, like the Google/Facebook/Amazon employee snooping where they aren’t supposed to. In this case employees are tasked with watching the video clips that car owner intentionally shared with them in order to label it (draw boxes around specific objects). After spending 8 hours a day drawing boxes around fire hyd…
Clicking through a we-can-do-whatever-we-want agreement is hardly the same as intentionally sharing something.
Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars
#517Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google's was a rogue employee that was caught. Tesla seems to be a cultural problem where employees think it's OK.
> Google's was a rogue employee that was caught. Tesla seems to be a cultural problem where employees think it's OK. While having it be ok as corporate culture is a bit worse, fundamentally the problem is that private personal data is available to these corporations so at that level it is the same problem. The only systems which are safe are those which either never send private data outside of local (local to the us…
They still expect the same sort of treatment that they get from their traditional health care providers and banks etc, with strong regulations enforcing the correct behavior.
Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars
#518Earlier quoted context omitted.
So much worse than that, because they go online and simp for the company after doing it
Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. This thread was bad enough already but a comment like this is an obvious degradation. We want the opposite here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
Ban away if you need to but I'll continue to level valid critiques at a tech company selling an $80,000 luxury sedan without a spare tire.
Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars
#519Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. This thread was bad enough already but a comment like this is an obvious degradation. We want the opposite here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
The things being discussed in these threads are valid criticism. The cars have deep flaws and the corporation has an expectation that exuberant owners will continue to do free marketing and PR for them. Ban away if you need to but I'll continue to level valid critiques at a tech company selling an $80,000 luxury sedan without a spare tire.
Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars
#520Earlier quoted context omitted.
The things being discussed in these threads are valid criticism. The cars have deep flaws and the corporation has an expectation that exuberant owners will continue to do free marketing and PR for them. Ban away if you need to but I'll continue to level valid critiques at a tech company selling an $80,000 luxury sedan without a spare tire.
You can easily make your valid points without snark or flamebait.
On any given day there are 30 fresh topics getting lambasted by the terminally online nerds that populate this site but the second someone brings up Tesla-- Mods show up to enforce "civility" and pass out bans to anybody with 'wrong' opinions.
Hacker News being pointlessly negative is such a meme that people blackhole links coming from HN just to avoid the "free condescending advice", seems fitting these same reply guys can't handle the lightest of criticisms against their god-king or his ewaste cars.
We get called "the orange site" because name dropping Hacker News on social media causes a swarm of scavengers to attack you like a dead fish hitting the ocean floor.
I understand you have a difficult job making sense of the above + trying to prevent it from getting worse but genuinely this interaction leaves me feeling like getting my main account banned from HN would be a badge of honor.