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Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

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Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#211

Post by somewhat_drunk »

_hypx wrote: post #208
somewhat_drunk wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

98% of H2 is made from fossil fuels because cracking water is very expensive. H2 is already expensive when reformed from natural gas - you can expect to pay 20-30 cents per mile to travel in the most advanced, fuel efficient H2 vehicle out there. https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/exclusive-fresh-bl... H2 made via electrolysis is a bit more than 3x that cost. Are you ready to pay $1 per mile to drive? Of cours…

And it's soon to be very cheap, just like the rest of green energy. You're basically stuck in the past and citing people who are also stuck in the past. A fuel cell is also an electrochemical system. An FCEV is also an EV. Same electric motors and everything. They can attain the same level of efficiency as a li-ion battery and not any more complex. Less complex even, if you seriously analyze the complexity of the bat…

>They can attain the same level of efficiency as a li-ion battery and not any more complex.

No, they cannot attain the same level of efficiency. It's not even close, and no one who was arguing in good faith and had done even the most cursory research on the issue would make that absurd claim.

https://tide.theimi.org.uk/industry-latest/motorpro/efficien....

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/mirai-fcev-vs-model-3-bev-pau...

You're just making stuff up. We're done here.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#212

Post by somewhat_drunk »

ephbit wrote: post #210
somewhat_drunk wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

98% of H2 is made from fossil fuels because cracking water is very expensive. H2 is already expensive when reformed from natural gas - you can expect to pay 20-30 cents per mile to travel in the most advanced, fuel efficient H2 vehicle out there. https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/exclusive-fresh-bl... H2 made via electrolysis is a bit more than 3x that cost. Are you ready to pay $1 per mile to drive? Of cours…

What's your view on FCEV long haul trucks? Do you see BEV becoming the dominant truck technology? If FCEV trucks were to take off as a technology and get to a share of say 30 % of all trucks in some region, then I'd speculate that the FCEV tech in itself would ultimately displace BEV not only in the truck but also partially in the car sector.

Long-haul trucking is the one possible on-road application for fuel cell tech. But with the rate at which battery tech is advancing, and the massive head start that existing recharging infrastructure (the grid already exists) has over hydrogen infrastructure (nothing exists), I would be surprised if, in 20 years, a significant percentage of long-haul trucks use fuel cells.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/05/eternally-five-years...

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#213

Post by somewhat_drunk »

_hypx wrote: post #209
somewhat_drunk wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Industry is very good at mitigating risks with procedures and detection. Homeowners, not so much. >Serious incidents are rare. Even so, they're probably more common than you think. Google it. >there hasn't been a single hydrogen car that has exploded Uh... google "hydrogen car explosion." >So just from that your argument is just lazy fearmongering and FUD. So far, every point you've made has been weak or outright inc…

There literally hasn't been a single hydrogen car that has exploded. You can only cite examples of people carrying hydrogen and due to incompetence it started a fire or explosion. Meanwhile, many people have died in fires in existing cars, including BEVs. Sorry, but you are a liar. Your attitude is just a mask for your BS.

Worldwide, about 50,000 FCEVs have been sold, vs about 7 million BEVs. Comparing the safety of the two on an absolute basis isn't just dumb, it's intentionally misleading.

Pretty sure at this point you're a paid propagandist.

If that's true: fuck you, die in a fire.

If not: I sincerely hope you learn how to think critically at some point. Have a nice day.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#214

Post by _hypx »

somewhat_drunk wrote: post #211
_hypx wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's soon to be very cheap, just like the rest of green energy. You're basically stuck in the past and citing people who are also stuck in the past. A fuel cell is also an electrochemical system. An FCEV is also an EV. Same electric motors and everything. They can attain the same level of efficiency as a li-ion battery and not any more complex. Less complex even, if you seriously analyze the complexity of the bat…

>They can attain the same level of efficiency as a li-ion battery and not any more complex. No, they cannot attain the same level of efficiency. It's not even close, and no one who was arguing in good faith and had done even the most cursory research on the issue would make that absurd claim. https://tide.theimi.org.uk/industry-latest/motorpro/efficien... . https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/mirai-fcev-vs-model-3-bev-pau…

Wrong. Both are electrochemical systems. Both have a limit of 100% efficiency in theory. The fact that you don't know this suggests you're a giant bullshitter this whole time.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#215

Post by _hypx »

somewhat_drunk wrote: post #212
ephbit wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your view on FCEV long haul trucks? Do you see BEV becoming the dominant truck technology? If FCEV trucks were to take off as a technology and get to a share of say 30 % of all trucks in some region, then I'd speculate that the FCEV tech in itself would ultimately displace BEV not only in the truck but also partially in the car sector.

Long-haul trucking is the one possible on-road application for fuel cell tech. But with the rate at which battery tech is advancing, and the massive head start that existing recharging infrastructure (the grid already exists) has over hydrogen infrastructure (nothing exists), I would be surprised if, in 20 years, a significant percentage of long-haul trucks use fuel cells. https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/05/eter…

Fuel cells are battery tech. Again, where are you getting your info? It's pure bullshit and utterly detached from reality.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#216

Post by _hypx »

somewhat_drunk wrote: post #213
_hypx wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There literally hasn't been a single hydrogen car that has exploded. You can only cite examples of people carrying hydrogen and due to incompetence it started a fire or explosion. Meanwhile, many people have died in fires in existing cars, including BEVs. Sorry, but you are a liar. Your attitude is just a mask for your BS.

Worldwide, about 50,000 FCEVs have been sold, vs about 7 million BEVs. Comparing the safety of the two on an absolute basis isn't just dumb, it's intentionally misleading. Pretty sure at this point you're a paid propagandist. If that's true: fuck you, die in a fire. If not: I sincerely hope you learn how to think critically at some point. Have a nice day.

And until 15 years ago, nearly zero BEVs have sold. Meanwhile, >1 billion ICE cars have been sold.

You literally are the dumbest person on this site I've met. Not are you incredibly stupid, you act like you have actual knowledge. You clearly are in the Dunning-Kruger zone, assuming you aren't intentionally trolling.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#217

Post by ephbit »

somewhat_drunk wrote: post #212
ephbit wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your view on FCEV long haul trucks? Do you see BEV becoming the dominant truck technology? If FCEV trucks were to take off as a technology and get to a share of say 30 % of all trucks in some region, then I'd speculate that the FCEV tech in itself would ultimately displace BEV not only in the truck but also partially in the car sector.

Long-haul trucking is the one possible on-road application for fuel cell tech. But with the rate at which battery tech is advancing, and the massive head start that existing recharging infrastructure (the grid already exists) has over hydrogen infrastructure (nothing exists), I would be surprised if, in 20 years, a significant percentage of long-haul trucks use fuel cells. https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/05/eter…

One thing that makes me speculate that fuel cells will play an important role in the future is: the future electrical grids based on, say > 85 % renewables, will be a challenge to keep balanced 24/7.

In order to deliver enough electricity most of the time, without needing huge amounts of storage (which are tiny right now), renewables will have to be massively over built. I assume there'll be times when there's 5x or more the electricity available compared to actual consumption.

Let the sun shine and the wind blow in summer and there'll be huge amounts of electricity which cannot be stored or consumed by BEV or some other grid connected battery because they're not enough. Industrial processes won't easily consume sudden surges in available electricity either.

Take the UK grid with its average of ~ 31 GW. Let's say they triple their wind power capacity which is currently at ~ 18 GW and double their pv capacity which is currently at ~ 3 GW. That'd be 60 GW so roughly twice the electricity that's consumed on average.

We're in summer, heat pumps don't consume .. so 30 GW excess electricity over say 3 windy days adds up to ~ 2 TWh. That's the capacity of 26.7 million Tesla Model 3 (long range) with a 75 kWh battery each. And they'd all need to be charged from 0 to 100 %.

Batteries won't suffice, I think.

So what'll be done? Electrolysis, I think -> H2, ammonia, methane, ..

So there'll be significant amounts of these being produced and stored.

Ammonia might well become the energy carrier of the future, being shipped around the world with large tankers to transport energy from where it's produced to places where it's used.

If that were to become true, wouldn't the fuel cell be the fitting technology for heavy duty and/or long range vehicles?

And once there'd be infrastructure for trucks and heavy vehicles, roughly the same ifrastructure could be used for FCEV cars.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#218

Post by somewhat_drunk »

ephbit wrote: post #217
somewhat_drunk wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long-haul trucking is the one possible on-road application for fuel cell tech. But with the rate at which battery tech is advancing, and the massive head start that existing recharging infrastructure (the grid already exists) has over hydrogen infrastructure (nothing exists), I would be surprised if, in 20 years, a significant percentage of long-haul trucks use fuel cells. https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/05/eter…

One thing that makes me speculate that fuel cells will play an important role in the future is: the future electrical grids based on, say > 85 % renewables, will be a challenge to keep balanced 24/7. In order to deliver enough electricity most of the time, without needing huge amounts of storage (which are tiny right now), renewables will have to be massively over built. I assume there'll be times when there's 5x or…

Hydrogen will be produced when electricity exceeds supply, but it will be used to decarbonize existing H2 demand, which is massive.

As for smoothing out the electricity supply, EVs themselves are likely to play a large role, as will home batteries. The grid of the future will be much more distributed than what we have today. Tesla recently released a report which outlines where we are, where we need to be, and what is required to get there. It's succinct yet comprehensive, and well worth a read.

https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/Tesla-Master-Plan-Part-3.pdf

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