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Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

economist.com

211–220 of 381 posts

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 30% of Russians are against the war (20% don't know, 50% support the war). That's about 40 million people that would have to leave the country. Only 30% of Russians have travel passports, and most of them used them to travel to Ukraine, Kazakhstan and other ex-Soviet countries to visit their relatives.

Those numbers are pulled right out of someone's ass. No-one really knows how many citizens are for and against the war (there were some hints that the Kremlin did several unofficial polls and really didn't like their results, but nothing supported by good evidence). Also, you don't need a travel passport to visit relatives in ECU (which Kazakhstan is a member of), and it's pretty much impossible to visit Ukraine lega…

I have a Russian passport and I've been to Kiev in December 2021. It was just a few months before war has started and talks about possible war was all around the news for months already.

Had no problem crossing Ukraine border control. Of course after war started it became impossible, but it was very much expected.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wonder how the black and natives feel That they’re better off than being slaves.

sorry to break it to you but black men and women are born free. its just that americans put them in chains. im sure that today they are grateful for being treated as 2nd class citizens

> today they are grateful for being treated as 2nd class citizens

That isn’t what you said. You pushed back on the notion that people fought and continue to fight for others’ rights in America in a way they don’t in modern Russia (or China). That isn’t true, and it isn’t true that America Blacks or women are worse off today than they were two hundred years ago, as OP argued when you pushed back. Perfect is the enemy of good; you’re arguing against American values on a thread about modern Russia.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A key difference being that American society has evolved over the last 200 years to largely outgrow the cultural elements that produced those abuses. We fought a very bloody civil war to get rid of slavery, and black people/women have had the right to vote for some time. We're also not massacring Native American villages anymore. Not saying the problems are 100% solved, but no one can argue it's night and day compare…

> We fought a very bloody civil war to get rid of slavery, and black people/women have had the right to vote for some time is that what gets taught in american schools these days? i wonder how the black and natives feel > Putin by contrast is a return to a 19th century Tsardom in everything but name what does tsardom mean? if anything putinism is a caricature of the russian government in Red Alert 2. by that i mean a…

Better to be black in America than Russian in Russia. We got our problems over here, but at least we aren’t being conscripted and thrown into the meat grinder of a pointless war.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to keep up with the wave of panic sweeping the United States over transgender health care acceptance, this document is the best one I've found: http://legialerts.com/

[flagged]

> Kids are too young to make life long decisions like this.

Exactly, and that's why I think it's inconceivable that they should be prohibited from getting help from therapists and psychiatrists, which bills like this one try to prohibit.

This is a serious decision in which children and their parents need support. Bills that seek to a) prevent children from accessing care based on peer-reviewed standards of care, b) send parents to jail for supporting their children, and c) revoke the licenses of health care professionals who follow internationally accepted, peer-reviewed guidelines should never see the light of day.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#215

this is absolutely terrible. this is a sure way for russia to create a modern version of the stolen generation [1] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generations

Sure is terrible, just weird that russians themselves just take it and don't stand up.

Good luck standing up against million of well armed, well paid and well trained national guards.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> more than a few got adopted and abused, and something like 19 were killed by their adopted parents. Completely useless propaganda in the absence of [1] a credible source and [2] a comparison to those adopted by Russians, or who remain in Russian orphanages. FWIW, if I were a Russian orphan, I'd take my chances being adopted by parents in the U.S. any day of the week over remaining in an orphanage. Not to say that R…

You're probably right on this. But the political will to send orphan children into a country that might mutilate their sex organs is probably zero in Russia at this point.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#217
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In fact, Russia made record profits last year. There was a lag between the jumps in prices and the move towards other sources than Russia. Russia is going to have massive budget issues from this year onwards. Saying that Europe is still a massive buyer of Russia gas and oil is simply false.

Do you have a source? I found that after start of the war imports doubled from Russia for gas and news try to hide this elephant in the room. Same with swift, they said that Russia was disconnected but it was just a publicity stunt and I personally sent wire to Russia via swift in usd to test and it did work. Don’t know which sources to trust but seems like they all lie

[deleted]

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#218
post #150

Russians have never had any real individual rights. Throughout their history the common people have just been resources enslaved to brutal overlords. The Soviets were perhaps somewhat softer overlords on average, but the principle remains. The state will dispose of disobedient people the same way it would dispose of rotten potatoes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8ZqBLcIvw0

> Russians have never had any real individual rights. To take a step back and think about things (not that I'm suggesting what I think)... in most places for most of history it's been about the group. The collective. Being heavily individualized is a modern and western thing. So, why is one way right and another way wrong? Note, I do not agree with what's going on with Russia. I'm simply bringing up the higher level…

One way produces far more wealth for more people than the other. Wealth isn't just luxuries, it's technology. It's health. It's more time to do more things more efficiently. It's evolving and generally improving the human condition, as opposed to stagnation. Obviously not everyone agrees with the direction of evolution or the various philosophies involved, but the system provides flexibility such that we aren't constantly genociding each other just to get our way, which used to be the norm. Of course at the end of the day none of us know the meaning of existence, but I think most can agree taht "reducing fruitless suffering" is a better place to start than most.

Obviously there's a balance to be struck. 100% individualism is just anarchy. But history has proven that allowing people an above-historical-average level of individual freedom leads to a more productive and secure society.

That said it's debatable whether strong-man dictatorships are "collectivist" at all. They're extremely individualist, but only for a select group of elite individuals. Otherwise they'd try and make decisions to benefit the group, and as Putin has shown in Ukraine, they often don't. Never mind the strategic decision to invade which might have had some initial merit, you would expect a truly collectivist nation to prioritize competence in its military. As it stands a full NATO conventional intervention could end the war in a month, the only thing keeping Russia intact is brutal suppression of internal dissent and a nuclear arsenal that, if it's been maintained as badly as its regular military, might very well explode in its silos on launch.

That doesn't sound like a very effective collective to me. Maybe it would have been effective 300 years ago because that level of organization is all most nations had, but that's the point. It's an obsolete model.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regular people receiving sentences of 7 years in colonies for anti-war posts or statements well apart from the from the article on which you are commenitng, you can read this https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/03/russia-studen... > At the same time - convicted murderers are freed to volunteer to fight against Ukraine and are given state honors e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/26/world/europe/wagner-fig…

Legally there is no penalty for being against the war or against the government. Actually it is the opposite - calling for war or helping to start it might be illegal. The law punishes for spreading falseful information or discrediting use of armed forces in interests of Russia. For example, for falsefully claiming that special military operation against West-supported neo-nazis preparing an attack against Russia is…

> "Legally there is no penalty for being against the war or against the government"

> "there was someone who got a fine for holding a poster with asterisks only"

> "Holding Ukranian flag obviously will get you in trouble too"

I can't imagine how you reconcile these facts in your mind without thinking "ok, maybe Russia is authoritarian".

Unless that's sarcasm that went way over my head.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#220
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, why is one way right and another way wrong? There are conventions. That countries agree to uphold. In this case not upholding them is the "wrong" way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Rights_of_th...

So side stepped the context of my question (group vs individual) and answered to the context of the parent.

I was specifically responding to your comment: there are plenty of charters and conventions and when they refer to human rights they refer to individuals not groups. Russia and others have agreed to (for example) the UN CRC meaning they can have any feelings when it comes to society vs individual but the rights of the child still remain.
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