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Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

economist.com

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Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#111

Post by livinginfear »

woodruffw wrote: post #91
livinginfear wrote: post #69

[flagged]

This is a category error: you're comparing US propaganda (a think the US government did and still does) with an article from a UK-based magazine that's mostly known for economics analysis. The US (and the UK) both have ample motivation (and source material) to cast Russia in a negative light. But there's a significant different in kind between "Destroy This Mad Brute"[1] and even directed journalism. [1]: https://www…

I picked the most sensationalist propaganda on account for rhetorical purposes. I imagine I could find much more modern, subtle and pertinent examples of propaganda from the Vietnam war era if I spent enough time looking.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#112

Post by cainxinth »

hippich wrote: post #19

Just to note, same happens in Belarus. This is one of the reason we can't travel there to see our grand parents - risk of being put in to prison and kids taken away is just to high to accept.

Belarus is a Russian puppet-state under Lukashenko.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#113

Post by varjag »

iso1631 wrote: post #96
ourmandave wrote: post #45

They've already yoinked hundreds of Ukraine children from families, so why not? Embrace the fuckery and continue the war crimes on your own citizens.

It seems that support for Ukraine is one aspect that crosses demographics here in the UK, Left and Right, Young and Old, Leave and Remain, all fully oppose Russia and broadly support the efforts the UK and the west in general have done. It seems to be that a significant number of people in America seem to support the Russian narrative.

Selling Russia as the city on a hill to much of American public both on the right and on the left was tremendously successful info op.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#114

Post by andsoitis »

livinginfear wrote: post #101
tokai wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try following along instead of wrongly claiming scepticism towards something that is well documented.

Are you suggesting that I start blindly taking the mainstream media's reporting about war at good faith? Aren't there enough historic examples of how the American media establishment have been used to further American foreign policy objectives? I've always thought of myself as left-wing. I came of age in the 'War on Terror', and recall the collective skepticism of the American establishment. I remember the attitude o…

> Are you suggesting that I start blindly taking the mainstream media's reporting about war at good faith?

Skepticism is good, but has to be grounded in something plausible otherwise it isn't as much evidence of critical thinking, but rather of something else.

> Aren't there enough historic examples of how the American media establishment have been used to further American foreign policy objectives?

The Economist is British.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#116

Post by TechBro8615 »

causi wrote: post #109
TechBro8615 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I edited my post while you were replying and clarified that (and then edited it again to restore the quote you were replying to, lol). It's not a crime in itself, but it puts you on the radar to be entrapped and later charged with a crime.

Sure, but the grandparent said "You'd be arrested in the UK/US if your child wrote glory to isis". That's the only point I'm rebutting.

Oh, yeah, I definitely can't see the parents being arrested, even if their kid went through with a terrorist attack. We don't even arrest the parents of school shooters. In some rare cases of juvenile radicalization, maybe the prosecutor would refer the case to CPS, but only if they thought the parents were somehow responsible for causing the problem in the first place. But if there is an actual problem then they'd throw the kid in jail, so there would be no need for CPS.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#117

Post by dd36 »

iso1631 wrote: post #96
ourmandave wrote: post #45

They've already yoinked hundreds of Ukraine children from families, so why not? Embrace the fuckery and continue the war crimes on your own citizens.

It seems that support for Ukraine is one aspect that crosses demographics here in the UK, Left and Right, Young and Old, Leave and Remain, all fully oppose Russia and broadly support the efforts the UK and the west in general have done. It seems to be that a significant number of people in America seem to support the Russian narrative.

That’s what their media is telling them.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#118

Post by codedokode »

_visgean wrote: post #32
andersentobias wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sources?

> Regular people receiving sentences of 7 years in colonies for anti-war posts or statements well apart from the from the article on which you are commenitng, you can read this https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/03/russia-studen... > At the same time - convicted murderers are freed to volunteer to fight against Ukraine and are given state honors e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/26/world/europe/wagner-fig…

Legally there is no penalty for being against the war or against the government. Actually it is the opposite - calling for war or helping to start it might be illegal.

The law punishes for spreading falseful information or discrediting use of armed forces in interests of Russia. For example, for falsefully claiming that special military operation against West-supported neo-nazis preparing an attack against Russia is actually a war or that army allegedly attacks civilian buildings and infrastructure. For this you can get to jail. For the same reason, posting messages like 'no to war' online will get you in legal trouble (and replacing 'war' with asterisks won't help; there was someone who got a fine for holding a poster with asterisks only). Holding Ukranian flag obviously will get you in trouble too although I don't know how exactly this discredits armed forces.

Recently I read that a protester with a poster "arrest me if you are agaisnt the war" was arrested. Better not joke with police.

I assume many countries also have laws against spreading falseful information. And holding Russian flag in many countries might get you arrested as well.

Can provide a link to relevant legislation if needed.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#119

Post by varjag »

cainxinth wrote: post #112
hippich wrote: post #19

Just to note, same happens in Belarus. This is one of the reason we can't travel there to see our grand parents - risk of being put in to prison and kids taken away is just to high to accept.

Belarus is a Russian puppet-state under Lukashenko.

The authoritarianism in Belarus is entirely domestic in origin and predates the modern Russian one.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#120

Post by SXX »

jimbob45 wrote: post #5

Any Russians on here to explain why dissenters wouldn’t work on leaving the country rather than token demonstrations like this?

For once because no one welcome people with Russian passport regardless of fact that you're against the war. It's possible to get humanitarian visa to a few EU few countries, but it's very difficult unless you're already under criminal investigation.

Few countries where it easy to move is ex-USSR countries like Georgia, Armenia, Kazahstan, etc. Unfortunately in all of them except Georgia there is high risk of extradition. And there good chance Georgia can simply close border at any moment or refuse entry at random.

There are few other countries including Turkey, Montenegro, Serbia, but moving there is actually quite expensive. It's really only an option for IT people who work remotely and there good chance your residency permit won't be renewed at any moment. Finding offline job in those countries even harder and with inflated cost of rent such job will barely pay enough to survive.

I personally donated to Armed Forces of Ukraine and posted enough on social media to get myself in prison for next 10 years, but I not gonna to attract attention to myself just to to get a visa.

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