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Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

economist.com

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Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#91

[flagged]

This is a category error: you're comparing US propaganda (a think the US government did and still does) with an article from a UK-based magazine that's mostly known for economics analysis.

The US (and the UK) both have ample motivation (and source material) to cast Russia in a negative light. But there's a significant different in kind between "Destroy This Mad Brute"[1] and even directed journalism.

[1]: https://www.loc.gov/resource/ppmsca.55871/

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#92
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of explanation are you seeking? Are you looking for broad “reasons” why history has unfolded the way it did? What if Russia’s history is not improbable? What if “Western” {democracy + variants of capitalism + colonialism + etc} is actually more of a surprise, probabilistically? Have you read various commentaries that draw associations and even causal links between natural resources and history? For example,…

> What kind of explanation are you seeking? In this case, I am wondering if a culture other than the present would lead to different outcomes, and specifically wondering if there are significant after-effects of the long-ago Mongol domination. Of course it's near impossible to answer this with any scientific rigor, and I don't have much hope for it :) It seems that the communist takeover in 1918 was not an obvious "d…

Ah. I’m not a dedicated Russian scholar, but the big themes to me seem to be:

- Relative cultural isolation of Russia, with the exception of the major cities nearer to Europe. I’d speculate this is partially due to few international trade routes.

- A brutally tough existence, largely due to the climate, economic systems, and over-investment in war.

- No transformational economic gains from territorial gains. The US Colonies, later states, had huge land and resources to colonize and plunder. This created new centers of power and upended Britain’s colonial grip.

- Systemic repression.

- Few alternative centers of power besides the state. Religion plays less of a role in Russian throughout history compared to the West, is this fair?

- High levels of distrust for decades if not centuries, leading to leaders capitalizing on fear.

- Low probability that an aspirational leader could shake the country free of its 20th century roots. No chance that an exiled leader could flee, build a reputation, and return later to transform the country.

I know relativity little about the Mongol influence. What suggests that it might be lasting and enduring?

P.S. This answer would probably be better, more comprehensive, and possibly confidently wrong if aided by a chatty AI.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#94
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When apartheid South Africa was a pariah state the world held the voting population of South Africa accountable as a collective, rather than just pretending it was only the elite in government making all choices. Although the system was corrupt and hardly a full free and fair election even within the limited racial franchise the country was allowed, the white voting public and corporate and civil society elite had mo…

By that logic Israel should have full sanctions applied to it based on their treatment of the Palestinians. Instead the west is supporting the continued operation of a full open air prison with which it is near impossible to escape and that people are born and die in. There is plenty of hypocrisy to go around in the West. There are no major reforms coming either. Instead the west is doubling down by imposing laws to…

This isn't a question about whether there's hypocrisy in global politics. Of course there is. You're arguing a separate point.

It's about whether populations in cases like this can be said to be accountable, and be treated that way, rather than pretending it's only the elite who are making all the decisions and hold bad views.

Israelis, for instance, are certainly collectively responsible for the actions of their government. It's not all just Netanyahu and a few others calling the shots.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#95
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sources?

Do you read Russian?

You can read the Moscow Times, an English language newspaper.

They relocated to Amsterdam iirc and is owned by Derk Sauer who was booted out of Russia. He also writes interesting opinion pieces in het Parool about the re Stalinisation of Russia. Fascinating stuff. Ofcourse I have no idea if the majority of Russians really care- Stalin was very popular.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#96

They've already yoinked hundreds of Ukraine children from families, so why not? Embrace the fuckery and continue the war crimes on your own citizens.

It seems that support for Ukraine is one aspect that crosses demographics here in the UK, Left and Right, Young and Old, Leave and Remain, all fully oppose Russia and broadly support the efforts the UK and the west in general have done.

It seems to be that a significant number of people in America seem to support the Russian narrative.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#97
post #23
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia -> some people in Russia

Putin has had high approval ratings for years. Not only because they clamped down on any opposition, but also because Russians simply don't care. This is not just a "Putin" problem.

He notably took credit for ending the lawlessness of the 90s, which was really bad. Russia went through a couple of years of being an outright "failed state", with basically no police operating in much of the country, and rampant gang violence, extortion, and lots of people wondering how they were going to survive, let alone put food on the table.

Putin played the classic "tough on crime" authoritarian tack, except the crime wave was genuine, and huge. The routine street crime and killings were brought to a stop, and ... unfortunately he's been riding the popularity wave from that for at least 20 years. I mean — he didn't solve the high-level corruption of basically having a mafia class run things, which robs the average people of opportunity, but he did slam down on street crime, at least.

Credit for this is a bit misplaced, but it is a reason why he was unusually popular for quite a while.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#98

[flagged]

what are you talking about? The economist has nothing to do with american administration. It is an independent, british publication. Also, for example the "Throwing babies out of incubators" was, as I understood it, not ordered by the american government but by the kuwait government and later disputed by the independent journalists of ABC.

Your comment is just baseless and easily leads to "alternative" facts and other senseless claims. It is actively harmful.

Statements by governments need to be checked, but that's what independent journalists are there for. The same venue you criticise.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#99
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps in the UK, but writing "Glory to ISIS" is perfectly legal in the US.

It's not a crime in itself to say "Glory to ISIS!" but if you say it publicly, it will put you on the radar of law enforcement agencies like the FBI who will entrap you and then use your "Glory to ISIS!" post as evidence when they charge you with providing material support to terrorists. You can find plenty of indictment PDFs on justice.gov that reference "social media posts in support of ISIS."

You can find plenty of indictment PDFs on justice.gov that reference "social media posts in support of ISIS."

Are there any that only reference social media posts in support of ISIS? You could use them as supporting evidence of a crime but they are not a crime in and of themselves.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#100

Is a family in the US that publicly supports Al Qaeda or ISIS not being threatened with the same?

Fuck dude, Ukraine is not a terrorist organization, at least compared with Ruzzia where you had state people going around the world and assassinating civilians with various possions. Too bad West is too coward to name Putin, his pary and Ruzzia a terrorist state and apply the laws for Ruzzia as they are doing for other terrorist organizations.
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