Talk or imitate?
If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?
101–110 of 221 posts
Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which one of those has more influence in the world?
Hmmm. As I type this reply on my device powered by a semi conductor that wouldn’t exist without our knowledge of quantum physics I’m gonna say science.
As I type this from a free country that allows me unrestricted access to worldwide media, and affords me the right to express my opinion freely publicly, I would say politics.
We all have our own points of view. Yours is certainly an astute observation. But it is not the only one.
Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?
#103Sorry but I was going to sleep, the article title was intriguing to me but was 12+ paragraphs long, so I ask ChatGPT the same question and I got 3 short paragraphs. Hope I'm not missing too much. > If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys? > Parrots are able to mimic human speech because they have a specialized vocal organ, called a syrinx, that allows them to control the sounds they produce. This ability is not shared…
A couple more "whys" in you get:
> Parrots are social animals that live in complex environments such as rainforests, where communication with other members of the group is essential. The ability to produce a wide range of vocalizations, including mimicry of other animals and human speech, could provide an advantage in communicating with other parrots and navigating the complex social dynamics of their environment.
> In contrast, monkeys and other primates evolved in a different ecological context, where visual communication and social cues may have played a more important role than vocalization. Additionally, the physical constraints of the primate vocal tract may have limited the evolution of more complex vocalizations, including mimicry of human speech.
Although it doesn't make sense to me now - monkeys also evolved in rainforests right? Maybe they stayed closer. After all birds can fly.
Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?
#104I've seen this movie and it doesn't ever end well for us.
I’ve seen this comment and it doesn’t end well for the poster.
Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?
#105tldr; larynx position
Huh, according to the article it's not larynx position. It's that chimps seemingly lack the neural wiring to exercise fine motor control over their larynges. It's like humans comparative lack of control in wagging our ears compared to what dogs can do.
Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Do we really? Yes. We do. Significantly more. It’s our only power. We aren’t stronger or faster or more vicious, we cannot fly or breed dozens of humans at a time or puke honey. We can’t swim the ocean depths or swing through the trees. But we sure can think, understand and create. For better or worse. I’m all for not underestimating animals. They are sentient like us. But not at the cost of dismissing the human an…
We have very good color eyesight, are unusually flexible when it comes to weather, are pretty omnivorous and disease resistant, and we're absolutely unbeatable endurance runners. IIRC we actually smell as well as dogs too, if we get down to floor level.
Don't forget being able to throw accurately.
Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
That’s not the conclusion at all. The article says monkeys can understand and produce words (via signs). They can’t talk because they don’t have control of their larynx. They’re mute essentially.
Could stem cells be used to grow neurons on to monkeys' larynxes?
Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
The short story "The Great Silence" by Ted Chaing feels very relevant here. > The humans use Arecibo to look for extraterrestrial intelligence. Their desire to make a connection is so strong that they’ve created an ear capable of hearing across the universe. But I and my fellow parrots are right here. Why aren’t they interested in listening to our voices? We’re a nonhuman species capable of communicating with them. A…
I think the dark forest theory rings very true here. The risk/reward equation for communication is skewed so far towards the risk end that, as the joke goes, maybe the surest sign that there’s intelligent life is that none of it has contacted us. Or Peter Watts’ much more succinct take: if they do exist, they’ll be mean .
Maybe there is some truth in this. Wisdom and truth can be found in silence.
Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?
#109It's interesting to compare this "sound-talk" that parrots can easily accomplish with the obviously greater intelligence of apes, who can't reproduce human sounds, with the debate over whether chatGPT is intelligent or not. Note that Koko was obviously a greater communicator than any parrot ever was. Is mimicking human behaviour a necessary, or even sufficient, criteria for demonstrating cognition and intelligence?
It depends on which behavior is mimicked.
The vast majority of people would say that no unintelligent, or parrot-level-intelligent, entity can explain a joke like this: https://www.freethink.com/robots-ai/gpt-4-jokes
I also personally asked GPT-4 to solve an easy CodeForces problem dated March 2023 and its solution worked perfectly the first time. (I haven’t yet tested it on a harder Codeforces problem.) Although the problem is relatively easy, it’s still much harder than the Fizz buzz test.
Geoffrey Hinton has updated his AGI timeline significantly in the last 2 years. He is definitely worth listening to: https://mobile.twitter.com/JMannhart/status/1641764742137016...
Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Chimpanzees are intelligent and willing to do something like communicating, and can maybe produce words/signs, but they don't produce sentences/syntax and they never ask questions. Supposedly parrots can do that one. Related question: which animals understand humans pointing at things?
There are a number of interesting videos on social media sites ostensibly demonstrating dogs and birds using buttons and tablets to generate reasonably coherent communication like might be expected out of a two year old. Some of these have some backing scientific literature that provide some validation of the claims. If true it would indicate they have quite advanced mental faculties and are basically entirely limite…
Rigorous research on speech and communication in non-humans