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If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

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Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#71

Post by yazzku »

Izmaki wrote: post #42
junon wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a parrot. He can talk, both contextually and randomly (the former much less often, but does still happen). Not sure what your criteria for "talking" are but, by all of my own measures, my parrot sounds pretty much exactly like me in most cases, and like a child in most others. The words are clearly distinguishable, understandable, and in multiple languages (he lives in a multi-language household). So, yes. Par…

My parrot will on every occasion that it stumbles, let out a surprised "Oh!" followed by a "Good boy!" when he gets back up again. I didn't sit around all day teaching him to say "Oh!" whenever I pushed him off the branch and praise him when he got back up again. I also don't tell myself I'm a "Good boy!" whenever I get back up from a stumble (which thankfully doesn't happen often at home to begin with). I'm sure my…

From your description, it does sound like your Parrot has some understanding of meaning, much like dogs do. Not that they understand the grammar or can make out the individual words, but it seems like it can correlate with . -> "Good boy"; -> " + Ah-ha!". Similarly, a dog may not understand that "sit" is an English word, but it can clearly understand "sit" -> (or whatever language you used to train them, they couldn't care less). That association is meaning, even if they are not fully acquainted with the works of Shakespeare.

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#72

Post by tonymillion »

chatmasta wrote: post #49
nico wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I've also been wondering this. Can we train an LLM on dolphin noises? I suspect the problem is the training data. If we don't know what the dolphin squeaks mean, we can't really filter the training data to include only meaningful "language." But I do wonder how far we could get by just dumping a bunch of dolphin recordings into an LLM and getting it to make the same noises... The other side of that same problem is th…

I feel the only recognisable words we’d decode is a farewell and some kind of gratitude about food…

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#73

Post by catchnear4321 »

chatmasta wrote: post #66
catchnear4321 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be impossible to give them useful vocal cords. Just not because of the vocal cords. There should be a category specifically for invalidated science fiction. Things found to be unpossible in any timeline, assuming consistent laws of nature.

I believe this category is referred to as "uplifting" [0]. And while it certainly hasn't been proved to be viable so far, are you really sure it's time to rule it out as a possibility? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uplift_(science_fiction)

No, invalidated science fiction. The science being invalid. Meaning the vocal cords were the weak link. When it was not.

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#74

Post by PeterisP »

chatmasta wrote: post #49
nico wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I've also been wondering this. Can we train an LLM on dolphin noises? I suspect the problem is the training data. If we don't know what the dolphin squeaks mean, we can't really filter the training data to include only meaningful "language." But I do wonder how far we could get by just dumping a bunch of dolphin recordings into an LLM and getting it to make the same noises... The other side of that same problem is th…

They key issue with lack of training data is that we do have intelligent dolphins for communication experiments - for example, we can replay certain sounds that we have recorded, and we can "ground" that language with "nonverbal" communication - e.g. showing various things or pictures.

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#75

Post by jamiek88 »

chatmasta wrote: post #62
Archelaos wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a cognitive experiment were chimpanzees perform better than humans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKvX9PPmI-Q

There's something about watching other primates interact with screens that just feels so uncanny . It's an almost humbling experience, seeing how much they look like us tapping and scrolling. The only difference seems to be that we think we understand more of what we're looking at on the screen... but do we really ?

> Do we really?

Yes. We do. Significantly more. It’s our only power. We aren’t stronger or faster or more vicious, we cannot fly or breed dozens of humans at a time or puke honey. We can’t swim the ocean depths or swing through the trees.

But we sure can think, understand and create. For better or worse.

I’m all for not underestimating animals. They are sentient like us.

But not at the cost of dismissing the human animal.

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#76

Post by jamiek88 »

nico wrote: post #56
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do models that make abstractions and analogies have explanatory value? Yes, this is science. If it makes useful predictions, it has explanatory value. If it doesn’t, it’s cocktail party and TED talk fodder.

Which one of those has more influence in the world?

Hmmm. As I type this reply on my device powered by a semi conductor that wouldn’t exist without our knowledge of quantum physics I’m gonna say science.

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#77

Post by vips7L »

junon wrote: post #28
owenpalmer wrote: post #2

Parrots can't talk

I have a parrot. He can talk, both contextually and randomly (the former much less often, but does still happen). Not sure what your criteria for "talking" are but, by all of my own measures, my parrot sounds pretty much exactly like me in most cases, and like a child in most others. The words are clearly distinguishable, understandable, and in multiple languages (he lives in a multi-language household). So, yes. Par…

My parrot will take a little nibble of you and then chuckle to himself cause he knows it strikes fear into you. And he’ll say “whatchya doin?” when he wants your attention.

I love these little tyrants.

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#78

Post by astrange »

rcme wrote: post #26
nico wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That’s not the conclusion at all. The article says monkeys can understand and produce words (via signs). They can’t talk because they don’t have control of their larynx. They’re mute essentially.

Chimpanzees are intelligent and willing to do something like communicating, and can maybe produce words/signs, but they don't produce sentences/syntax and they never ask questions. Supposedly parrots can do that one.

Related question: which animals understand humans pointing at things?

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#79

Post by ftxbro »

chatmasta wrote: post #49
nico wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I've also been wondering this. Can we train an LLM on dolphin noises? I suspect the problem is the training data. If we don't know what the dolphin squeaks mean, we can't really filter the training data to include only meaningful "language." But I do wonder how far we could get by just dumping a bunch of dolphin recordings into an LLM and getting it to make the same noises... The other side of that same problem is th…

Yes that's the point of project CETI https://www.projectceti.org/ but for sperm whales instead of dolphins. I saw a video of it, it was so amazing but I forget which one of the videos it was.

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#80

Post by rumdz »

astrange wrote: post #78
rcme wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not the conclusion at all. The article says monkeys can understand and produce words (via signs). They can’t talk because they don’t have control of their larynx. They’re mute essentially.

Chimpanzees are intelligent and willing to do something like communicating, and can maybe produce words/signs, but they don't produce sentences/syntax and they never ask questions. Supposedly parrots can do that one. Related question: which animals understand humans pointing at things?

My dogs when I drop crumbs on the ground
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