Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping • Hacker News Board

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#301

Post by pclmulqdq » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 3:40 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #289

pclmulqdq wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you can legitimately not know what to think about any particular issue. Some people don't have a favorite color. Expecting everyone to have a considered opinion about every political topic is just unrealistic.

Yes. And then you probably don't do business in or with a foreign country. The point is that you should know and likely do know , for example, what Qatar thinks about minority rights when you award them a World Cup.

This is an impossible standard to hold people to even on issues in their domestic country.

If you're from the USA, I'm sure that as a well-informed citizen, you know about how the relationship between tribal law and federal law were recently challenged at the Supreme Court (Haaland vs Brackeen), and can provide a reasoned position on the status of Native American tribes and how they should be addressed. After all, it was big news in Native American circles, and silence on that issue is violence towards Native Americans.

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#302

Post by mjr00 » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 3:46 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #291

mjr00 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which side are you on in the Liancourt Rocks/Takeshima/Dokdo dispute? Remember, there's no remaining neutral in politics, so I expect a well-reasoned answer on this fundamental territorial rights dispute.

I have no idea what that is, and I hope I'm not passively taking a position in that dispute due to my business involvements (of which are none). I'm not arguing that everyone have an opinion on everything. I'm arguing that when you do business , you might be taking a side in something whether you would like to or not.

Google does business in both Japan and Korea. What's Google's stance on the Takeshima/Dokdo dispute?

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#303

Post by whythre » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 4:03 PM UTC

Aunche wrote: post #282

madeofpalk wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> drunk driving may kill a lot of people, but it also helps a lot of people get to work on time, so, it;s impossible to say if its bad or not, https://twitter.com/dril/status/464802196060917762

The difference is that drunk driving objectively kills over ten thousand people every year. Meanwhile, the negative effects of 10 person company refusing to generate low-effort satire is less clear.

Bending the knee to a brutal ethnic cleansing regime is never a positive, regardless of the size of the entity capitulating.

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#304

Post by throwaway29812 » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 4:04 PM UTC

sakisv wrote: post #24

auggierose wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not China, nor any other non-democratically governed country.

If I may point out here that if we take the word "democracy" at face value (i.e. That the ruling entity needs to have the support of the majority of demos) then most countries are really not democratically governed: The people in charge get voted in by a minority of the people who go to vote - which gets even worse if you account for people who are eligible to vote but abstain.

> (i.e. That the ruling entity needs to have the support of the majority of demos)

There is nothing undemocratic about federalist republics. Or parliamentary democracies that require coalitions to rule. They are simply different kinds of democracy.

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#305

Post by evancox100 » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 4:19 PM UTC

The real kicker here is that this functionality is blocked not only in China but globally. That is indefensible, at the very least provide some timeline or assurance that such restrictions will be limited to users of that particular country. It is natural to have different rules around content in different countries, whether you agree with those rules or not. But doing it this way you are setting rules for all users based on what the most restrictive, authoritarian countries will allow.

It is the same with Hollywood, they have completely caved in, and it is a mockery of the idea of free and creative expression. Like in any good censorship regime, the creators are chaining themselves, no state intervention needed!

Just incredible.

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#306

Post by Aunche » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 4:59 PM UTC

whythre wrote: post #303

Aunche wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that drunk driving objectively kills over ten thousand people every year. Meanwhile, the negative effects of 10 person company refusing to generate low-effort satire is less clear.

Bending the knee to a brutal ethnic cleansing regime is never a positive, regardless of the size of the entity capitulating.

At the end of the day, it's his company, so he can choose what services to supply. Freedom of speech means that he is allowed to have is own worldview that you disagree with, and you're free to use any other AI tools to make as much satire as you wish. If you're worried about China, worry about our incompetent Congress who is more interested in collecting sound bites than actually learn enough about technology to write meaningful regulation that protects us from China's influence on corporations.

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#307

Post by Teever » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 5:04 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #160

Teever wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the private company is exercising its right to run its business according to its own free will. Let's run with that. Should a company be allowed to own slaves? Should a company be allowed to do business with a company that owns slaves?

>Should a company be allowed to own slaves? No, because slavery is illegal. >Should a company be allowed to do business with a company that owns slaves? They do, all the time. Manufacturing, mining (particularly of the rare earth metals that go into electronics) and agriculture all depend on slave labor.

Should the second one be illegal as well?

What is the functional difference between the two besides more paperwork and another middle man taking a cut?

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#308

Post by Animats » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 5:11 PM UTC

staticman2 wrote: post #298

SilverBirch wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It rather depends though doesn't it. It's very clear in Islam that images of the prophet are forbidden, they find it offensive. So out of respect it would seem reasonable to disable that. It's not then reasonable to disable generating images of jesus or the pope. Why? Because christians don't object to images of the pope or jesus. If there were specific things that christians found offensive, I think it's reasonable…

I think you are ignoring the elephent in the room: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting I think the concern is more that someone will show up and murder everyone in your office for allowing drawings of the prophet Mohammed than concern it is "offensive" per se. I'm not blaming a company for making the decision to not put their employees lives in jeopardy, but let's not pretend this is some benign ju…

The terrorists won.

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#309

Post by doodlebugging » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 5:20 PM UTC

lm28469 wrote: post #145

doodlebugging wrote: post #87

It seems we have reached the point in our existence as a society where it is time to take a stand. Who are we? What values do we share? What behavior are we willing to tolerate? How much will it cost us to allow a company or an individual to compromise our principles? A lot of people, far too many in fact, allow greed to define themselves. Profit above all else. Those people should be universally vilified and removed…

You're 70 years too late, these questions have been answered for you

I'm not sure that I can be too late. Tech trends over the last 20 years clearly demonstrate that societal mores can be shaped to fit any desired value set in less than a generation.

We are always in a state of flux but we are not necessarily ever truly fucked until we ignore the fact that we can change all of it for the better.

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#310

Post by doodlebugging » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 5:25 PM UTC

manuelmoreale wrote: post #140

doodlebugging wrote: post #87

It seems we have reached the point in our existence as a society where it is time to take a stand. Who are we? What values do we share? What behavior are we willing to tolerate? How much will it cost us to allow a company or an individual to compromise our principles? A lot of people, far too many in fact, allow greed to define themselves. Profit above all else. Those people should be universally vilified and removed…

> Who are we? What values do we share? What behavior are we willing to tolerate? How much will it cost us to allow a company or an individual to compromise our principles? Do you think these are questions where a single answer can be found? Don’t you think that different societies will inevitably have different opinions on those subjects?

I expect that there are many different ways to answer those questions and that the answers will likely vary for any number of reasons. I also expect that behind most of those answers is a thread that links all of us to some common ground which should serve as the foundation for our belief system and a point where we can all drink from the same cup and resolve to find ways to understand why our answers differ and to accept those valid answers and then work together for things that benefit us all.