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Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

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101–110 of 209 posts

Re: Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

#101
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It seems you can't really handle OP being right and have resorted to what-about-ism. So it seems you have conceded the argument and agree that Russia is mindlessly belligerent and now are saying that's fine because you think x-y-z are also belligerent? (Wrong but eh, not the subject of discussion).

If by "the OP being right" you mean that Russia is pretty much like every other "Great Power" then yeah. Not only can I handle that, but I'm saying the same thing.

But that's not what the OP seems to be saying. He seems to be saying that, history has shown Russia is uniquely a bloodthirsty country that wants to attack its neighbors for no reason, any chance it gets. In a "normal" analysis of countries since, say, 1980s, one would see that countries typically attack as a reaction to something. Even USA invading Iraq was officially in response to Saddam ousting inspectors and maintaining ambiguity about WMDs. And even the secret war of bombing in Laos, which was especially egregious (since Laos presented zero threat, and yet was bombed more than any country in history), was justified by the "domino theory" that we cannot allow communism to spread around the world, because one day it may "challenge our interests".

That's why USA and NATO want to flip Russia's neighbors against Russia, even if it means a CIA-sponsored insurgency war where a million people die. In this kind of geopolitical chess, it is far better that they fight Russia over there, than having to later fight them all over here, economically and militarily, as a geopolitical bloc. Pick them off, divide and conquer. Russia, like a cornered animal, will react, as would any country to whom it is done. That kind of stuff is understandable -- geopolitical chess, action, reaction.

But if one goes to say that Russia is somehow beyond reacting, actually goes out and invades countries to grab their territory for fun and profit, that's saying much more. And in that case, I would push back on that narrative. Even the USA isn't doing that, officially. They are always "reacting" to what they perceive are a threat to their interests and security. But in the USA case it's much harder to justify when a country they're invading is 3000 miles away.

The point of my reply was to say that each country (Russia included) has media that radicalizes their population to think exactly this kind of "cartoon villain" thing about their geopolitical rival, and I wish we would all listen to each other's media and hold our politicians accountable to talk to each other more frequently, as Khrustchev and Kennedy did, so they can avoid killing millions of people as "collateral damage" between the Great Powers. Because watch, if we escalate with China around Taiwan, we'll be saying the same thing about China being a cartoon villain in about 3-4 years from now.

Oh, and avoiding nuclear war: https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15250.doc.htm

Re: Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

#102
post #64

Anyone who's been paying attention I believe would agree that our foreign policy around Ukraine has come at a huge cost not only to us financially and economically, but also to our foreign relations. Under this conflict our relations with China, India, Brazil, Saudi Arabia -- these are important partners -- have degraded. Having watched that unfold, this isn't a surprise to me.

The fact that there's a major land war in Ukraine, which the US did not start and had no power to prevent, has come at a huge cost. This is true. Given that Ukraine patently was not just going to roll over, and even if the US hadn't supported them, much of Europe absolutely would. I think it's petty plain the war would still be raging fiercely anyway. Most likely Russia would be on the skirts of or in Kyiv and Odessa…

[flagged]

Re: Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

#103
post #7
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least one middling positive of the invasion has been a litmus test for the levels of integrity of various countries. Russia annexed Crimea almost a decade ago. If you haven't read the writing on the wall and maneuvered independence you're incompetent or immoral. I can’t really parse this. Why should Japan care about Crimea or Ukraine?

Looking at OSM, the sea borders of Russia and Japan touch. That seems like a good reason for Japan to care about what Russia is doing to another country it shares a border with.

> Looking at OSM,

I would have thought this kind of knowledge was in the table stakes for anybody with any kind of interest in the matter.

Re: Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

#104
post #14
post #9

In related news; backstory [1]: Australia is the biggest supplier of energy and key minerals to Japan, reflecting Australia’s position as a reliable, safe and competitive producer of raw resources. Australia provides around two-thirds of Japan’s coal, and a third of Japan’s LNG imports. Australia also provides about 60 per cent of Japan’s iron ore imports. and, just the other day [2]: The head of Japan's biggest oil…

Is your unspoken claim that Japan bought Russian gas because Australia just suddenly refused to sell gas anymore?

Japan really doesn't like that out media and politics have been recently and loudly complaining that australians dont get to buy our own gas as cheaply as we sell it to Japan.

They're expecting our newish Labor Gov to tear up agreements to fix this.

Re: Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

#105
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what do you mean assumption? they have attacked several neighbours for no reason and have stated they wish to "reclaim" others

That's simply not true. You should learn about conflicts not from CNN news. 1. Russia hasn't stated a wish to reclaim other countries, even former parts of USSR. 2. Both military conflicts with neighbors Russia participated in: Georgia and Ukraine had very serious reasons and it was not Russia, that initiated both.

> You should learn about conflicts not from CNN news.

what would be better then?

RT I suppose?

Re: Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

#106
post #40
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a shocking reality of how short-sighted and strategically shallow the opinions of people may be, even very literate ones with unlimited access to information. There are very long tensions between Japan and Russia about the Kuril Islands, that both countries have a claim on. It is very possible, that the same vague claims used on annexing Crimea today, or Donbas, would be used against Japan, and may not stop…

>"If there would be no punishment for disrespecting international law, the chaos would come." The list of "disrespecting international law" is pretty big. The list of punishment is way shorter and highly selective.

Could you please list any other war of conquest with that much casualties, armour usage and refugee issue in Europe?

And what punishment are we talking about, voluntary economical sanctions? Those numbers of atrocities, stealing children, mass graves - I still can't understand how the international response is so mild.

Re: Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

#107
post #24
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the unstated assumption here that Russia is mindlessly belligerent and going to attack any neighbor for any reason?

Mindlessly belligerent, yes. "Any reason" is a bit of a stretch — I doubt Putin has a dice with country names on it — but given how dumb it was to invade Ukraine, it's not unreasonable to assume he's dumb enough to try Japan.

> it's not unreasonable to assume he's dumb enough to try Japan.

One thing Japan has that Ukraine does not is a whole bunch of US military installations. (And a mutual defense treaty, but you know what they say about three useless forms of North American paper)

Re: Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

#108
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It seems you can't really handle OP being right and have resorted to what-about-ism. So it seems you have conceded the argument and agree that Russia is mindlessly belligerent and now are saying that's fine because you think x-y-z are also belligerent? (Wrong but eh, not the subject of discussion).

Excellent use of ad-hominem, incorrect use of whataboutism and to top it off, a classic strawman.

Re: Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

#109
post #102
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that there's a major land war in Ukraine, which the US did not start and had no power to prevent, has come at a huge cost. This is true. Given that Ukraine patently was not just going to roll over, and even if the US hadn't supported them, much of Europe absolutely would. I think it's petty plain the war would still be raging fiercely anyway. Most likely Russia would be on the skirts of or in Kyiv and Odessa…

[flagged]

> two of the more plausible candidates for the beginning of this whole thing are [...] the American invasion of Serbia

Are we talking about 1999?

Re: Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

#110
post #102
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that there's a major land war in Ukraine, which the US did not start and had no power to prevent, has come at a huge cost. This is true. Given that Ukraine patently was not just going to roll over, and even if the US hadn't supported them, much of Europe absolutely would. I think it's petty plain the war would still be raging fiercely anyway. Most likely Russia would be on the skirts of or in Kyiv and Odessa…

[flagged]

NATO never made any formal commitment not to expand eastward, and Russian presidents from Yeltsin onwards were completely relaxed about eastern European countries choosing freely to join NATO. Gorbachev is on record saying he was never even aware any such statements had been given.

In May 2002 Vladimir Putin said Ukraine was entitled to decide on its own whether to join NATO and that he did not see such a decision as one that would “cloud” Russian-Ukrainian relations.

I think it's highly loaded to phrase this as NATO expansion. It sounds like NATO somehow coerced these countries into joining, or annexed them somehow. These countries came beating on NATO's door desperate to be let in. The instigating trigger for Putin's 2014 annexation of Crimea wasn't anything anyone in NATO said or did, it was the newly elected Ukrainian government's signalling that they wanted to join NATO.

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