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Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

xda-developers.com

201–210 of 348 posts

Re: Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the altnets are not government funded - there was a ridiculous amount of money put in them from the low interest rate period, many many billions. I very much doubt they will get a good return given the crazy level of overbuild going on. I have now 4 separate infrastructure-wise FTTH networks available to me in my London apartment.

I believe (without supporting data) that most altnets that are expanding coverage to people with poor broadband are government funded. The economics in London are quite different than that of a rural village.

The vast majority aren't govt funded, the £5bn gigabit scheme is just getting going. Some may be in the future.

Economics aren't actually that different for villages (very rural single dwellings are though of course). Most villages of say 1k ppl already have fibre going to them (for VDSL cabinets), so they can buy the backhaul from Openreach.

Then it's a case of adding the actual fibre which they can use existing telegraph poles for.

There isn't really a huge difference in economics between urban suburbs and villages.

London is actually not as cheap as you'd think, because a lot of properties are apartments and that requires expensive wayleave agreements to be negotiated with the freeholder. This has significantly increased the cost, as many freeholders don't care and don't respond or want a lot of money for the permission, meaning you have to dig up the street regardless and miss a lot of properties and hope they can be added later.

Plus the cost and complexity of closing roads/streets is much higher in London than other areas.

Re: Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

#202
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll bet 70+% of the money that ends up allocated will find its way into established isp pockets with absolutely nothing to show for it in return.

This is it exactly. I've got clients I work with in two federally recognized under-served areas that ISPs have gotten government grants for supporting. And yet, when you try and talk to the ISP about problems with the 2.5-down-.4-up DSL line they provide their literal reply is "You're lucky you have a dialtone." This is at a location 1.7 miles down the road from a school that has gigabit fiber. The existing programs…

Competition doesn't work, ISPs only care about high-profit dense areas. I bet that they are happy about services like Starlink because regulators are less likely to force them to provide service in remote areas because an alternative exists.

Re: Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

#203
I preordered Starlink in March of 2021, as soon as my first rural isp reneged on 50 megabits and sold me 5. 2 years later in western Virginia I still have no eta for my order and cannot contact anyone about it. I have 12 megabits from that same local ISP and it’s enough to do my job so I cancelled Starlink. I can’t imagine what customer service will be like if I am on preorder for two years and they refuse to give any update other than kicking the can down the road every time the estimated delivery date gets close. When I canceled my estimate was “early 2024”.

Re: Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

#204
post #22

All these talks about Starlink -> Remember it's a bandaid solution to your governments poor planning and infrastructure rollout of a core utility / service. I say this as an Australian who watched one government plan a national rollout of fibre while another came in justifying most people don't need a connection better than 25/5 (based on usage data at the time) and went ahead and gutted the project. We're now trying…

Yes. I am in rural(ish) Canada. A community got together and with regional and national funding created https://fibreargenteuil.ca/en/ It was intense, they had to fight, sometimes publicly, tooth and nail with the utility pole controllers. But I'm typing this from fast, reliable (knock the nearest of many trees) fibre internet with very reasonable (all things considered, though I wish they had a more basic tier for d…

One of the awful things I found here in (quasi-rural, near Hamilton) Ontario is this phenomenon:

1. No broadband from any of Rogers, Bell, Cogeco, etc. for multiple decades, and no real local offerings; despite being only a few km from a major centre

2. Nothing seems to be happening, so some local companies start offering point-to-point wireless services which fill a hole. They start putting up antenaes and stringing fibre all around. Fees are high but not awful. Bandwidth is low, but so much better than what one could get before. Also Starlink gets announced and deployed for some people.

3. Suddenly Bell shows up and starts running Fibe up and down the rural roads. What wasn't "economically viable" for them before suddenly super viable. Local wireless companies -- who took big risks to get a product to people -- lose hundreds of customers overnight.

I now have 3gbps fibre optic direct to my house when I had a 15mbps wireless connection a few months ago. But I'm sure some local small ISPs are going to be out of business by the end of the year.

I hate the way Canada is run.

Re: Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile here I am in the Netherlands (semi-rural I'd say), having two fiber modems installed because we have 2 competing fiber networks here. At least one of them goes to 2500/2500 for about 75 eur a month. Probably it'll go much higher in the future.

I'm in a farming village in Spain, all of 2 families living here, 45 minutes drive from the nearest population center, and they rolled out symetrical gigabit fibre last year (and not just to us - to every rural village in the region). The base 300/300 service is price capped at 38 euros/month as well. I'm paying a few bucks more for higher speed.

A 45 minute drive doesn’t even get you out of Brisbane, where I live (and has gigabit down — drives me nuts that our upload is capped at 50mbps. That’s the worst part of our system IMO).

We have a pretty different scale in a lot of ways: Australia is huge and basically empty, density wise.

Re: Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

#206
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5G extended range FWA piggybacks off 5G infrastructure. You can do similar things with WiFi or proprietary mmWave FWA, but it requires purpose-built infrastructure.

But how much 5G infrastructure is there in rural areas? Around my parts, not a lot. So the piggieback argument feels less relevant here.

Proprietary mmWave radios are already in wide use in rural areas. The economics of installing and using 5G extended range would be similar or better.

The key difference is the "extended range" part, which is what makes them competitive and in many cases superior in range to proprietary FWA. What standardization adds is inter-operation of equipment.

Re: Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile here I am in the Netherlands (semi-rural I'd say), having two fiber modems installed because we have 2 competing fiber networks here. At least one of them goes to 2500/2500 for about 75 eur a month. Probably it'll go much higher in the future.

"Semi-rural" Proportion of urban population 92.57% https://www.statista.com/statistics/276724/urbanization-in-t...

[deleted]

Re: Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

#208
post #22

All these talks about Starlink -> Remember it's a bandaid solution to your governments poor planning and infrastructure rollout of a core utility / service. I say this as an Australian who watched one government plan a national rollout of fibre while another came in justifying most people don't need a connection better than 25/5 (based on usage data at the time) and went ahead and gutted the project. We're now trying…

Meanwhile in India, I am paying ~50$ a month for 1 Gbps fiber connection. On speedtest and fast.com, I easily average about 800+ Mbps download speeds on ethernet.

In Poland I pay ~$15/month for symmetrical 1/1Gbps fiber and there's even possibility for 10/10Gbps at $25, but I can't imagine making use of it.

It's not available everywhere, but it covers a lot of smaller cities, so I'm happy that at least that's one thing that is done correctly here.

Re: Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2.5 Gb/s symmetrical is a sweet deal. Here in Italy in a town of 3k people I got "only" a 1Gb/s symmetrical, but so far I can't complain. It costs 25€/month so it's a pretty great deal

And here I am in the US in a metro area with a population of over a million and I can't get fiber despite AT&T having come door to door hawking their service on the premise that they were installing fiber. Clearly there's just not enough people in my area and it's impossible.

I'm in rural Mississippi. AT&T buried fiber lines here a number of years back and never lit them up. I think there were some grants or something. Power company coop ran fiber last year though so AT&T can go to hell.

Re: Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

#210
post #182
post #22

All these talks about Starlink -> Remember it's a bandaid solution to your governments poor planning and infrastructure rollout of a core utility / service. I say this as an Australian who watched one government plan a national rollout of fibre while another came in justifying most people don't need a connection better than 25/5 (based on usage data at the time) and went ahead and gutted the project. We're now trying…

Also Australian - based in Hunter Valley (~ 200km north-west of Sydney). Definitely rural. I replaced our Skymesh (geo-stationary) satellite (the only barely viable alternative) two years ago with Starlink. Skymesh gave me ~600ms RTT to Sydney servers, and maybe 25Mbps down (at 3am, clear sky, etc). Data cap was around 120GB / month, IIRC. Pricing was probably 75% of what I'm paying for Starlink now. We can kinda sor…

NBN isn’t privatised. It’s 100% public. So it’s not fully privatised, I’m sure if folks give the liberals a couple more goes they’ll figure out how to sell it off and buy it back like Telecom
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