Earlier quoted context omitted.
The technique Neuralink is using to fail to deliver is a bold one where they make outrageous claims about what kind of problems they can solve with brain-computer interfaces.
There are other companies doing similar BCIs and rather successfully. There is a pretty good understanding of what such interfaces can do because it has already been tried in humans - see what is being done with people who have severe epilepsy, for example. The innovation of Neuralink is not the idea of BCI itself nor the benefits it can bring - that's old news. Neuralink is about the surgery procedure and bringing i…
Neuralink’s FDA troubles are just the beginning
61–67 of 67 posts
Re: Neuralink’s FDA troubles are just the beginning
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are other companies doing similar BCIs and rather successfully. There is a pretty good understanding of what such interfaces can do because it has already been tried in humans - see what is being done with people who have severe epilepsy, for example. The innovation of Neuralink is not the idea of BCI itself nor the benefits it can bring - that's old news. Neuralink is about the surgery procedure and bringing i…
Neuralink is right to want to improve BCIs and make the technology more available, but the stated goals include things like controlling computers, using AI assistants, and telepathy. As far as I can tell, Musk likes to make promises or prognostications with a casual disregard for whether they are possible, and then apply significant amounts of pressure to the employees at his companies to make those things happen. Th…
Neuralink is most importantly about the surgery procedure, not about BCI itself, that's really nothing new at this point. They're building their own BCI because of their specific idea about the surgery (they don't want to need to remove the upper half of your skull like it's done today), but the tech itself is already proven.
Do you even watch the news of this field? This was tried like 5-10 years ago already, and is now steadily improving. I don't understand how you can make claims about Neuralink or Musk when you don't know the basics about the state of this field.
Re: Neuralink’s FDA troubles are just the beginning
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The basic summary is this: Neuralink is Theranos, except with animal cruelty. ... and without the fraud? You can't get Neuralink installed at wallgreens, for example.
It feels distinctly possible that Nueralink is fraudulent. What is the point of the demos, slideshows, and general hype that comes from the company? They aren't selling anything, and don't expect to for years. Even then, the first customers will find the product medically necessary, and this broad marketing approach will be unnecessary. It's just odd to have so much PR for this.
Re: Neuralink’s FDA troubles are just the beginning
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
And those points make what happoned less true or less bad?
Nobody is saying that but the quality of your argument is certainly diminished if you present these articles as evidence when they are written by a non neutral party with an agenda and at best confusing if not purposefully misleading.
Re: Neuralink’s FDA troubles are just the beginning
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
Eating a steak is not a good reason to cause unnecessary suffering. I don’t know what kind of argument you were hoping to make, but comparing one cruel thing with another is not insightful or useful. Industrial livestock production is inhumane and this is unnecessary; it can be fixed but there is not enough political will.
So you're expecting them not to do anything whatsoever with animals, because you define anything done with them as cruelty? I disagree completely. Of course there shouldn't be any unnecessary suffering and definitely zero cruelty, but animal testing - as well as animal eating - is fine with me and many more people. It can be "fixed" but almost nobody wants that "fix". Politicians are here to enact the will of the peo…
No, it sounds like you completely misunderstand my position. I guess I haven’t explained my position very well, because that’s completely incorrect. (I’m honestly a bit baffled by this.)
When I say “unnecessary suffering” I am not talking in some kind of mathematical sense of necessity, but I’m using the term colloquially, as it works in ordinary conversation. It means something like this—the suffering could be avoided without undue burden.
> This is not something that's broken, we want it this way - we wouldn't have spend so much time making regulations about it if we didn't.
I’m not sure I understand the logic for why you say we want it this way—politicians are here to enact the will of the people is a nice theoretical foundation for understanding the political process, but the actual behavior of representative democracies diverges from the will of the people, and it’s also not a moralistic argument—part of the reason that we have a constitutional government in the US is exactly because we recognize that we shouldn’t do whatever the people will.
The idea that I’m not supposed to “fix” the will of the people is kind of absurd anyway—all I’m doing is making moral arguments about what should be done, and the “will of the people” itself is an end product of people making arguments about what should or should not be done.
> If you find developing technologies that could fix epilepsy and ADHD (and potentially many more neurological issues) as well as help locked-in people communicate as unnecessary, I really don't know what to tell you...
You seem to be arguing that the behavior of Neuralink is necessary to achieve its goals, but the testimony I’ve heard seems to contradict this—the experiments are being done hastily, which results in bad data, unnecessary suffering, and then you have to redo the experiments.
There’s a simple formula you can use to get people to do immoral unethical things, if you desire. Create pressure to get results, then create an organizational structure that shields people from seeing the consequences. This is how we have industrial farms the way we do, this is how clothing companies based in the US end up using child labor overseas, and this is how Neuralink appears to be working.
When a clothing company gets caught using child labor overseas, you find some contractor to blame. You terminate the contract and hire another contractor to manage the manufacturing for you. This creates the façade of moral behavior on the part of individuals, while preserving the economic and organizational systems which encouraged immoral behavior in the first place. Neuralink isn’t out there with the goal of causing suffering just like clothing companies aren’t—and the best way I know to counteract it is with regulations.
Re: Neuralink’s FDA troubles are just the beginning
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Remember that he’s not actually that smart. Rob Beschizza has the best description of Musk: “I love how childish and petty it is. There is no depth or human complexity to Musk whatsoever: he's just a rich kid who got lucky and now we marvel at his exertions day in, day out. The New York Times still casts Musk as a public intellectual, even now, because its editors live in a floating world of narrative imagination and…
Well, that's alot of "luck" then. If only everyone could be as "lucky". I wonder how many CEOs have in-depth understanding of their products? My guess is it would be few.
Selection bias in action - we don't hear anything about the people who were less lucky than him.
One should never underestimate the importance of luck (and, if you are clever enough, you can even optimize for that).
Re: Neuralink’s FDA troubles are just the beginning
#67Reversing the aging process looks to be much easier problem to solve than uploading the brain. I dont understand why Elon didnt put his money in that direction. Luckily some people are starting to understand how close we are at solving reversing aging (measured in decades).
Remember that he’s not actually that smart. Rob Beschizza has the best description of Musk: “I love how childish and petty it is. There is no depth or human complexity to Musk whatsoever: he's just a rich kid who got lucky and now we marvel at his exertions day in, day out. The New York Times still casts Musk as a public intellectual, even now, because its editors live in a floating world of narrative imagination and…