Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters • Hacker News Board

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#351

Post by midasuni » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:32 AM UTC

HWR_14 wrote: post #125

arijun wrote: post #47

I would like to provide a contrasting viewpoint. I can’t speak to the situation in Paris, but in the city I live in, scooters are amazing. They reduce car usage which is better for both pedestrians and car users. They turn a 45 minute walk/30 minute bus ride/20 minute cab into a 10-15 minute trip, which opens up much more of the city (the city I live in was not built for the number of cars it has in it so getting any…

No one is contending that using scooters is bad for the user. They are saying a bunch of drunk users are using them recklessly for non-users and are getting in people's way by parking them all over the sidewalks and streets. An aggressive ticketing campaign isn't very helpful in a city with a lot of tourists, because they'll just go home without having paid the ticket. Is Interpol going to seek out 30 euros?

Take a €30 charge on the credit card when you start the rental. Refund when finished correctly.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#352

Post by jonasdegendt » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:34 AM UTC

petodo wrote: post #227

jalada wrote: post #164

When I was in Paris in 2019 I tried to use their e-scooters and it was nearly impossible because angry locals had sharpie-d over every barcode so you couldn’t scan them. I’m surprised the companies haven’t left already.

Thanks for tip! We are flooded by these also in Prague, can't walk normal on sidewalk, as if cyclists riding on sidewalks was not bad enough.

Blame your government for not creating adequate bike lanes or curbing car usage, instead of people just trying to get around. Nobody wants to be in each others way, it's just that most of the time cyclists have nowhere else to go.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#353

Post by midasuni » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:34 AM UTC

franky47 wrote: post #340

bjackman wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My market-supremacist response: I wish that instead of banning them they just fixed the negative externalities: a system where anyone can report a poorly parked scooter to the city govt and the owner of the scooter receives a significant fine. That way the market will soon be forced to find a solution to parking enforcement, or stop renting out scooters. In the former case we keep the benefits of scooters. In the lat…

I'll raise you on the report and propose that scooters should report themselves when badly parked. Unless incentivised, nobody would report bad parking, or it could be abused and whatnot. Most of them already have a GPS system for fleet tracking (takes care of where it's parked), and an accelerometer would easily detect those laying on their side (plus fall detection for added marketing benefit).

With lime I think you have to take a picture when parking to show it’s parked safely.

If you fine companies for abandoning outside designated areas, what’s to stop random yobs (or competitors) moving the legally parked vehicle to a bad place then reporting it?

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#354

Post by vetinari » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:34 AM UTC

apichat wrote: post #345

vetinari wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Plus thousands of people killed by toxic gases from cars, taxis and motorbikes. Please substantiate this claim. Thank you.

Have a good reading : In Paris, air pollution kills 5,400 people every year https://www-francebleu-fr.translate.goog/infos/transports/a-... https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/transports/a-paris-la-pollut... Air pollution is responsible for more than 5,000 deaths each year in Paris according to a study published on Wednesday. Published in the Lancet Planetary Health journal, it calculated premature deaths linked to PM2.5…

As to the sibling: air pollution != "toxic gases from cars, taxis and motorbikes". Your linked article says "road traffic, industry, airports, ports, but also wood and coal heating".

Furthermore, the lancet paper only estimates, they didn't measure anything. The linked article presents an hypothesis as if it was proved. It was not.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#355

Post by WJW » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:36 AM UTC

pharmakom wrote: post #193

solatic wrote: post #132

Here in Tel Aviv, they'll never get rid of them for at least one reason: they're the only form of at-least-semi-public transportation available on the weekend (Shabbat) and Jewish holidays, when the law forbids buses and trains from running. Meet a date at 10 PM on Friday night? Scoot. Catch the Saturday 5 AM tour bus to a day-hike that's meeting on the other side of town? Scoot. They've also helped boost demand for…

Wait, so on weekends you can drive a car around but you cannot get the bus or a train? if so that's crazy.

Well. You are legally allowed to drive a car around, but will still get stones thrown at your car if you do so in an ultra-orthodox neighborhood.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#356

Post by midasuni » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:37 AM UTC

apichat wrote: post #171

With 7.45% turnout, it's more of an elderly's bad joke. Elderly and wealthy people who have been brainwashed by television and want to continue using their murderous and polluting cars and taxis. Other people are more concerns by ecological problems and the rise in the pension age.

Maybe the other 92% should have turned out then?

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#357

Post by franky47 » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:39 AM UTC

elric wrote: post #287

I wonder if there have been any social studies done regarding the apparent sense of entitlement that comes with operating any kind of vehicle. E-scooters are an absolute menace nearly everywhere I've seen them being used, with their operators weaving between pedestrians and cars alike, and littering the kerb when unused. But the same is often true for bicycles, especially the fast electric kind, and it's certainly tr…

If ever such a study is attempted, it should look into a correlation with vehicle mass, speed, and energy requirement from the operator.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#358

Post by WJW » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:40 AM UTC

hoseja wrote: post #210

aflag wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public transport is operated by the government. They consider no one should work on Saturdays so they don't run their services then. I think if using your private car was forbidden it would've been even crazier.

Well, it IS forbidden, no? Just not banned by the government.

Not everyone in Israel is Jewish, and not all those of the Jewish ethnic group practice the religious beliefs. There are plenty of people in Israel who enjoy a good bacon sandwich for example, and there are plenty who drive their cars around on shabat. However the religious parties managed to capture the government for decades and have forbidden the national bus and trains companies to drive around Jews and non-Jews alike on Saturdays.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#359

Post by elric » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:40 AM UTC

wink wrote: post #304

elric wrote: post #287

I wonder if there have been any social studies done regarding the apparent sense of entitlement that comes with operating any kind of vehicle. E-scooters are an absolute menace nearly everywhere I've seen them being used, with their operators weaving between pedestrians and cars alike, and littering the kerb when unused. But the same is often true for bicycles, especially the fast electric kind, and it's certainly tr…

I think you're missing the fact that car infrastructure with curbside parking has evolved over decades, and cities have not managed to even provide ample parking space for standard bikes, as they have been in use for decades as well. Now these scooters just came into existence and over the course of 5-8 years have managed to clutter everything. They're not individuals' property (who would pick them up later) but they…

It's true that infrastructure has evolved over decades. Though bicycles predate cars, and for various reasons we (as a society) decided to fuck bicycles and pander to cars.

I'm not sure if the ownership vs rental argument holds much water. Bicycles routinely litter the kerb (and every other surface imaginable), even though they are usually owned rather than rented. Perhaps it's because they're relatively cheap? Or maybe it's an infrastructure problem after all?

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#360

Post by isaacremuant » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:42 AM UTC

capableweb wrote: post #338

isaacremuant wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your bike gets stolen. You can't cover partial routes with your bike and combine with other forms of transport. Your bike requires phisical effort which might require a shower on destination. If there's a transport strike, or it's too late for transport, rental vehicles that function 24hs save you The close minded and privileged outlook of "just own a car/bike/get picked by someone" shows a disconnect with the realit…

You're comparing owned bike vs rented e-scooter. Try comparing rented bike with rented e-scooter or owned bike with owned e-scooter and you'll see that there isn't such a stark difference. Not sure why you call me close minded, I never mentioned any of those "alternatives" you mention. I walk to most places I go to, as I currently live in a walkable metropolitan city in Europe.

I'm doing exactly what you asked.

> What exactly are the downsides of owning a bike that you don't have owning a e-scooter?

You said OWNING a bike. Now you suddenly seem to talk about rented bikes.

The argument around "rented vehicle being left anywhere" can be made for bikes. If you only argue for bikes that can be left at a station, then it's definitely worse than e-scooters. If the bike can be locked like e-scooters, without the need of an exciting station, then people will end up complaining just as much and ban them with the same reasoning.

> Not sure why you call me close minded, I never mentioned any of those "alternatives" you mention. I walk to most places I go to, as I currently live in a walkable metropolitan city in Europe.

Lol. How much and how long do you actually walk? I live in a metropolitan city in europe too (and have lived in multiple ones and travelled to many) and it can be called walkable, using the ridiculous US standards.

I love hiking and will walk long distances or, when I actually have a bike, bike longer but it's not practical in your day to day, to walk more than 2k, if you're pressed for time.

Also, if you're leaving a place in one end of the city at 2 am, when public transport options thin out, you're not going to walk 20/30km.

It's very easy to live in a well connected place and move very little and claim "I walk everywhere". It's also very selfish and lacks empathy with other realities.

But hey, it's an uphill battle to discuss things that affect real people in HN where it's all about "I'm sorted" and "The narrative says this is correct".