Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters • Hacker News Board

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#331

Post by watwut » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:07 AM UTC

concordDance wrote: post #198

shtopointo wrote: post #2

Excellent vote from the people of Paris! It's too easy to take these things on the sidewalk, go 20mph and disregard the people around you. Those things also weight quite a bit, so getting hit with that may be life altering.

All those things apply to bikes too. It really seems like societies ability to innovate has died completely with the rise of sedentary elderly populations (contrasted with mobile young ones) blocking all change.

Speed for example does not apply. I did not seen bikes going 20mph on sidewalk with people. Ever. Bikes can go that fast, but they lack agility and acceleration so they dont do it in different places - not on side walk.

Also, it is simply not true that only elderly dislikes these services.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#332

Post by capableweb » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:08 AM UTC

gregoriol wrote: post #277

capableweb wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly are the downsides of owning a bike that you don't have owning a e-scooter?

You can't take a bike easily into: a car, the subway, your flat, a shop, ... It could also be the same reasoning as a car regarding the space: a bike for 1 person takes more space than an e-scooter for 1 person. The real problem is not the device: it's the users. People using bikes also do stupid things, but not that often. Bikes can be very fast too, with electric assist they can go faster than cars in the city, but…

> You can't take a bike easily into: a car, the subway, your flat, a shop, ...

Those places are getting more restrictive though. Some shops don't allow you to park anything inside the shop because it takes up space, some subways are banning e-scooters citing safety issues regarding not having equipment ready for dealing with large battery fires and so on.

Besides, there are foldable bikes that can take up as much space as a foldable e-scooter.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#333

Post by ggrelet » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:08 AM UTC

vetinari wrote: post #209

apichat wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Paris each years 90 persons are not "nearly mown down" by rental escooters but killed by cars, taxis and motorcycle. Plus thousands of people killed by toxic gases from cars, taxis and motorbikes.

> Plus thousands of people killed by toxic gases from cars, taxis and motorbikes. Please substantiate this claim. Thank you.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5...

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#334

Post by capableweb » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:09 AM UTC

ljf wrote: post #271

capableweb wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly are the downsides of owning a bike that you don't have owning a e-scooter?

Firstly you need somewhere to keep the bike, inside is great but outside space can work, though you are at risk of having it stolen. The main advantage is having it where you need it - maybe you got the metro or the bus to work and now you want to go on somewhere else. Your bike is at home. Then you want to head to a friends house, but there is nowhere safe to leave your bike but you'd be happy to leave the rental sc…

But those same arguments can be made for rentable bikes? Nothing unique with e-scooters in particular.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#335

Post by isaacremuant » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:09 AM UTC

capableweb wrote: post #249

HPsquared wrote: post #245

It's a shame they are being banned in many places, because they are such a great idea. It's the equivalent to a taxi, but a small fraction of the price. It's such a great utility to be able to pick one up and go directly to your destination. All the advantages of having a bike, but without most of the downsides. People just needed to be somewhat polite and disciplined - too many ride fast on sidewalks, leave them in…

What exactly are the downsides of owning a bike that you don't have owning a e-scooter?

Your bike gets stolen.

You can't cover partial routes with your bike and combine with other forms of transport.

Your bike requires phisical effort which might require a shower on destination.

If there's a transport strike, or it's too late for transport, rental vehicles that function 24hs save you

The close minded and privileged outlook of "just own a car/bike/get picked by someone" shows a disconnect with the reality of many people.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#336

Post by franky47 » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:14 AM UTC

bluecalm wrote: post #317

franky47 wrote: post #185

One major annoyance with these e-scooters is their "take it from anywhere, leave it anywhere" rental model. Sure, it's practical for the user, but it litters the pavement for everyone else with scooters badly parked, sometimes even lying on their side on the floor, requiring teams of maintenance people to patrol the streets (with petrol trucks) and set them back up in an orderly fashion and grouped at strategic locat…

Wait till you see how parked cars litter sidewalks and streets. Every one of them takes as much space as tens of e-scooters as well. It's really annoying cars have that free-for-all start anywhere - leave it anywhere model.

+1 on this.

Interestingly, I use a car sharing service which has fixed stations (cars have designated parking spaces where they're picked from, and you leave your car where you found it), and I find myself multimodalling (walk or cycle) to their EV stations (they also have petrol cars).

They also have a free-for-all offering where you can pick and park anywhere within the city limits, but I've never had a use for it - I only rent a car when hauling large enough things that wouldn't fit in a bus/tramway.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#337

Post by homeslike » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:15 AM UTC

martin_a wrote: post #266

HPsquared wrote: post #245

It's a shame they are being banned in many places, because they are such a great idea. It's the equivalent to a taxi, but a small fraction of the price. It's such a great utility to be able to pick one up and go directly to your destination. All the advantages of having a bike, but without most of the downsides. People just needed to be somewhat polite and disciplined - too many ride fast on sidewalks, leave them in…

> because they are such a great idea I'd prefer a tight mesh of public transport with a flatrate ticket system over any fancy mobility startup at any time.

as someone who lives in a city with (imho) one of the best public transport systems, i still like to use scooters for travels where public transport either can't provide an easy way to get to the destination and/or the wait times are longer than the travel itself. usually, i just use my bike, but there are still situations where an e-scooter is just an insanely practical choice.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#338

Post by capableweb » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:17 AM UTC

isaacremuant wrote: post #335

capableweb wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly are the downsides of owning a bike that you don't have owning a e-scooter?

Your bike gets stolen. You can't cover partial routes with your bike and combine with other forms of transport. Your bike requires phisical effort which might require a shower on destination. If there's a transport strike, or it's too late for transport, rental vehicles that function 24hs save you The close minded and privileged outlook of "just own a car/bike/get picked by someone" shows a disconnect with the realit…

You're comparing owned bike vs rented e-scooter. Try comparing rented bike with rented e-scooter or owned bike with owned e-scooter and you'll see that there isn't such a stark difference.

Not sure why you call me close minded, I never mentioned any of those "alternatives" you mention. I walk to most places I go to, as I currently live in a walkable metropolitan city in Europe.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#339

Post by simplotek » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:20 AM UTC

isaacremuant wrote: post #322

The whole argument about "they clog the streets" and annoy me is absolutely contrary to the actual incentives to cheaper and more ecological transport. It's a very NIMBY type of thinking. Hey, Citizen, if you don't have the means to buy, store and charge your own and occasionally would need one to deal with the craziness and unreliability of public transport, we are going to make it harder on you. Many countries in E…

> The whole argument about "they clog the streets" and annoy me is absolutely contrary to the actual incentives to cheaper and more ecological transport.

Bullshit. These e-scooter sharing services operate on cities already covered by all sorts of public transportation services, including municipal e-bike services.

The key difference is that municipal services address and avoid the problem of abusive occupation of public space by employing networks of pickup/dropoff spots.

> Hey, Citizen, if you don't have the means to buy, store and charge your own and occasionally would need one to deal with the craziness and unreliability of public transport, we are going to make it harder on you.

Bullshit. These escooter sharing services operate in cities where public transportation is highly subsidized and monthly fees are mostly symbolic, with some cities being even totally free.

Also, a cursory search for escooters shows that there are scooters in the market for 120kg/13km autonomy for less than 300€, and they can be charged by simply plugging them onto any regular electrical socket.

> Many countries in Europe keep punishing people who don't own cars or other vehicles while pretending they care about the environment. They do the same with bikes or e-bikes.

You have zero insight or basis on reality to support any of your personal assertions. You've managed to be entirely wrong in each and any assertion you made.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#340

Post by franky47 » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:22 AM UTC

bjackman wrote: post #263

franky47 wrote: post #185

One major annoyance with these e-scooters is their "take it from anywhere, leave it anywhere" rental model. Sure, it's practical for the user, but it litters the pavement for everyone else with scooters badly parked, sometimes even lying on their side on the floor, requiring teams of maintenance people to patrol the streets (with petrol trucks) and set them back up in an orderly fashion and grouped at strategic locat…

My market-supremacist response: I wish that instead of banning them they just fixed the negative externalities: a system where anyone can report a poorly parked scooter to the city govt and the owner of the scooter receives a significant fine. That way the market will soon be forced to find a solution to parking enforcement, or stop renting out scooters. In the former case we keep the benefits of scooters. In the lat…

I'll raise you on the report and propose that scooters should report themselves when badly parked. Unless incentivised, nobody would report bad parking, or it could be abused and whatnot.

Most of them already have a GPS system for fleet tracking (takes care of where it's parked), and an accelerometer would easily detect those laying on their side (plus fall detection for added marketing benefit).