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Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

france24.com

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Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#321

Post by capableweb »

HPsquared wrote: post #282
capableweb wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly are the downsides of owning a bike that you don't have owning a e-scooter?

I'm more comparing own vs rent. Rental e-bikes are great as well, 90% as good as the scooters. Disadvantages of keeping your own: 1) Need to take it with you on the train/bus/car 2) Need to lock it to something secure when you leave it (especially e-bikes/scooters which are expensive) 3) Need to pick it up from the same place you left it last time. 4) Need to buy it (€1000+) and maintain it, and charge it 5) Need to…

Ah, but then the same applies for rented bikes too? Plenty of cities have those, nothing actually specific to e-scooters.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#322

Post by isaacremuant »

The whole argument about "they clog the streets" and annoy me is absolutely contrary to the actual incentives to cheaper and more ecological transport.

It's a very NIMBY type of thinking.

Hey, Citizen, if you don't have the means to buy, store and charge your own and occasionally would need one to deal with the craziness and unreliability of public transport, we are going to make it harder on you.

Many countries in Europe keep punishing people who don't own cars or other vehicles while pretending they care about the environment. They do the same with bikes or e-bikes.

See also the insane cost of train tickets Vs flights.

If govs were honest about the environment they would create incentives (positive, not punitive) to foment good forms of transport with good quality of life.

Instead, it's a very classist system.

HN will probably not get this due to the demo that either owns cars in the US or is on a more privileged class in Europe and likely also owns vehicles and property.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#323

Post by simplotek »

czechdeveloper wrote: post #273
seren wrote: post #246

Just a precision, (private) e-scooters are still allowed. The vote was on renewing or not the contracts of free floating solutions like Tier, Lime, etc

This is quite important. While e-scooters are very eco-friendly, in hands of large rending companies they usually have extremely limited lifespan and are not fullfulling this place.

> This is quite important.

I'd go a step beyond and claim that e-bike sharing services like Lime are extremely detrimental to an urban space while adding nothing to mobility and sustainability. They are mainly gimmicks used to litter urban spaces whose only purpose is to serve as a kind of coin-operated joyrides. These operators come in and dump truckloads of things onto the public space, scatter them around, and pretend that this is ok.

This ban has nothing to do with e-whatever, environment, mobility, or even economy. It's getting rid of an abusive practice that was a net loss for everyone involved.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#324

Post by newaccount74 »

vetinari wrote: post #292
soco wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an answer to this, an answer which I see implemented in some places: cutting into the car lanes. Because you don't have to drive through the historical center.

In the cities, where nobody really lives in the historical center, it is doable. (We are not talking about driving through; we are talking about access/servicing; there are very few cities without a ring -- or several rings -- where driving through center is the fastest way from one end to another). In the cities, where real people live there, it is not. Every part of the city needs servicing, including center. Your…

In 90% of inner city streets you could just block through traffic for cars and reduce traffic to almost zero, without inconveniencing people living there.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#325

Post by bluecalm »

More victim blaming from car obsesses culture. Problems with e-scooters come from them being forced to narrow and unusable infrastructure. Allow them on the road, let them park in places cars park and it will be better. As usual it's easier to ban people trying to avoid driving a 2-ton smelly and dangerous metal box everywhere instead of actually solving the problem.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#326

Post by simplotek »

walthamstow wrote: post #290
seren wrote: post #246

Just a precision, (private) e-scooters are still allowed. The vote was on renewing or not the contracts of free floating solutions like Tier, Lime, etc

Funnily enough we have the exact opposite in the UK. Private scooters banned, rental scooters laying all over the pavement. I lean towards private scooters as more preferable because they don't clutter the public space. However, because they aren't regulated, some people have extremely fast models. Not uncommon to see someone doing 30mph+.

> Funnily enough we have the exact opposite in the UK. Private scooters banned, rental scooters laying all over the pavement.

What's the rationale behind this nonsense?

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#327

Post by ramblerman »

isaacremuant wrote: post #322

The whole argument about "they clog the streets" and annoy me is absolutely contrary to the actual incentives to cheaper and more ecological transport. It's a very NIMBY type of thinking. Hey, Citizen, if you don't have the means to buy, store and charge your own and occasionally would need one to deal with the craziness and unreliability of public transport, we are going to make it harder on you. Many countries in E…

This rant is is very off base.

European countries are in aggregate extremely pro bike/pedestrian.

The scooter issue is particularly in focus, because in big cities the competition to become the main player has created a ton of competing companies trying to place their scooters all over the place. I don't mind it myself - I use them in the summer. But I have had to literally step over, or move around a pile of scooters on more than one occasion.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#328

Post by simplotek »

mrtksn wrote: post #319

Living in a major city which also has a buzz about banning scooters and scooters being banned in some more posh neighborhoods already, I have problem with this. The problem is obviously not the existence of scooters but how people would pile them up or ride them carelessly on sidewalks. IMHO, the solution would be to create infrastructure and usage rules. Seize the scooters from those who do not comply. Eventually, e…

The issue is that the Lime-like business model of scattering around e-scooters is fundamentally broken. They don't operate between pickup/dropoff spots nor can that be enforced. They intentionally expect these scooters to be dropped off in random places by riders. It's economically unfeasible to have employees constantly move around cities to gather them, and they'd have to license and pay for the occupation of public space to have dedicated dropoff/pickup spots.

The only shot at profitability of e-scooter sharing services depends on their ability to abuse public space without cost and dump all externalities on the communities they operate.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#329

Post by twelve40 »

jacquesm wrote: post #140
noahtallen wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E scooters are just as banned from sidewalks as bikes?

There's scooters and scooters. It's a bit of a misnomer but there are electric scooters that are like a Vespa scooter ('Absolute beginners') and there are electric scooters that are the ones that your kid would ride when they're 5 or so (plank with two wheels, you stand on the plank and 'scoot' with your other leg). The e-scooter of the latter variety is what is of concern here, ~20kg + rider moving at ~20kph (someti…

if 20km/h is a problem, why can't they just mandate a lower limit city-wide. Shared e-scooters are already heavily limited and regulated, physically can't go faster than 10km/h in large chunks of the city center already. Unlike cars or regular bicycles, shared e-scooters can be physically limited to any desired speed with one flip of a central switch. A total ban seems like looking for a scapegoat.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#330

Post by em500 »

twelve40 wrote: post #130
deanc wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The weight distribution in a scooter is all at the base. People have life changing foot and shin injuries from being impacted. People usually don’t cycle as quick consistently through cities, pressing a button on a scooter gets you to over 20km/h in moments.

first, rental scooters in Paris are very commonly geofenced and restricted second, regarding this: > People usually don’t cycle as quick consistently through cities, pressing a button on a scooter there are at least 8000 electric bicycles for rent scattered throughout Paris, how in the world is pressing a button on an electrical bicycle any different from pressing a button on a scooter? And I highly doubt your claim…

> how in the world is pressing a button on an electrical bicycle any different from pressing a button on a scooter?

I don't know about the US, but in Europe, light regulation only apply to electric bikes that provide pedal assistance, i.e. there is no propulsion if you don't start peddling (and as soon as you stop peddling). Ebikes that provide propulsion from just pressing a button would be regulated like mopeds (mandatory registration, insurance, helmet) because they're considered more dangerous.

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