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Neuralink’s FDA troubles are just the beginning

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Re: Neuralink’s FDA troubles are just the beginning

#31

Post by jacquesm »

tablespoon wrote: post #19
xiphias2 wrote: post #6

Reversing the aging process looks to be much easier problem to solve than uploading the brain. I dont understand why Elon didnt put his money in that direction. Luckily some people are starting to understand how close we are at solving reversing aging (measured in decades).

> Reversing the aging process looks to be much easier problem to solve than uploading the brain. I dont understand why Elon didnt put his money in that direction. Perhaps because it's much less prominent in science fiction.

Ira Levin, 'This Perfect Day'.

Re: Neuralink’s FDA troubles are just the beginning

#32

Post by jacquesm »

electric_mayhem wrote: post #21
extheat wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's alot of "luck" then. If only everyone could be as "lucky". I wonder how many CEOs have in-depth understanding of their products? My guess is it would be few.

You might get some mileage out of FoolEd By Randomness, by N. Taleb. What brings it to mind here is there’s a thought experiment that considers a very large number of people playing a series of rounds of Russian roulette. At the end there are a handful of very lucky and very wealthy people (and a vast graveyard of th unlucky).

The irony is very amusing on this.

Re: Neuralink’s FDA troubles are just the beginning

#33

Post by klodolph »

whatshisface wrote: post #22
klodolph wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m having some trouble interpreting your comment, and I don’t know how much context you have for Neuralink, so I will share a small amount of context which you may already know. The basic summary is this: Neuralink is Theranos, except with animal cruelty. The improvements that Neuralink advertises aren’t there, scientists in the field don’t believe that they will materialize in the foreseeable future, and there are…

> The basic summary is this: Neuralink is Theranos, except with animal cruelty. ... and without the fraud? You can't get Neuralink installed at wallgreens, for example.

Is that a material difference? The basic elements of the formula are there—promise some kind of revolutionary advancement in medical technology, fail to deliver it, but keep going down the same path anyway. I think that the people at the center of these schemes are believers, or at least, they start out that way. You believe that this technology will provide great benefits in the future, and so you do whatever you feel you must do to keep the research going forward. You believe that with more time, more money, you can close the gap.

At least, at first.

Re: Neuralink’s FDA troubles are just the beginning

#34

Post by watwut »

extheat wrote: post #17
KerrAvon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that he’s not actually that smart. Rob Beschizza has the best description of Musk: “I love how childish and petty it is. There is no depth or human complexity to Musk whatsoever: he's just a rich kid who got lucky and now we marvel at his exertions day in, day out. The New York Times still casts Musk as a public intellectual, even now, because its editors live in a floating world of narrative imagination and…

Well, that's alot of "luck" then. If only everyone could be as "lucky". I wonder how many CEOs have in-depth understanding of their products? My guess is it would be few.

He does not have in dept understanding of his product. He is massively charismatic, good at impressing people and very good at playing people. And most CEOs does not seem that bad compared to Musk.

Re: Neuralink’s FDA troubles are just the beginning

#35

Post by [deleted] »

transitivebs wrote: post #2

The example they gave of another company getting IDE Approval (Synchron) makes it seem possible, but I don't know how much of this is just general governmental inefficiencies and some level of systemic bias against Elon (stemming from big oil & auto). Or is the startup mentality of move fast and break things just not as applicable in this domain?

[deleted]

Re: Neuralink’s FDA troubles are just the beginning

#36

Post by echelon »

iancmceachern wrote: post #24
zaroth wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are more like hit pieces by advocacy groups that are against all forms of animal testing. The Vox article for example was written by the partner of someone who worked at PCRM - the advocacy group that filed the complaint. The article is also packed with pictures of animal abuse that has absolutely nothing to do with Neuralink - which they do mentioned in the fine print. These images of course are entirely misle…

And those points make what happoned less true or less bad?

Animals die for humans to live better lives all the time. There are protocols to minimize, but not eliminate, suffering. Animal testing is a greater good that helps us understand the diseases that plague us and look for cures.

The goals of Neuralink are some of the most important being undertaken. It might seem abstract or wishful to some, but should they succeed we will have a plausible way to escape our mortality. It's a long shot, but we should absolutely take it.

Re: Neuralink’s FDA troubles are just the beginning

#37

Post by Alcor »

iancmceachern wrote: post #24
zaroth wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are more like hit pieces by advocacy groups that are against all forms of animal testing. The Vox article for example was written by the partner of someone who worked at PCRM - the advocacy group that filed the complaint. The article is also packed with pictures of animal abuse that has absolutely nothing to do with Neuralink - which they do mentioned in the fine print. These images of course are entirely misle…

And those points make what happoned less true or less bad?

Nobody is saying that but the quality of your argument is certainly diminished if you present these articles as evidence when they are written by a non neutral party with an agenda and at best confusing if not purposefully misleading.

Re: Neuralink’s FDA troubles are just the beginning

#38

Post by crabkin »

justrealist wrote: post #26
electric_mayhem wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might get some mileage out of FoolEd By Randomness, by N. Taleb. What brings it to mind here is there’s a thought experiment that considers a very large number of people playing a series of rounds of Russian roulette. At the end there are a handful of very lucky and very wealthy people (and a vast graveyard of th unlucky).

Taleb writes entertaining books, but fundamentally is a trader who made one good bet (against the housing bubble) and is going to milk it for the rest of his life (which is, amusingly, exactly what he accuses Elon of doing).

Erm showing a a bit bad faith here. Taleb got his big break in the 80s. I think it was Black Monday, when he held long and deeply out of the money puts and watched them bring him considerable return while other market actors went out of business. Maybe the commenter above you is kind of retrofitting Taleb's ideas, but fundamentally Taleb is a real thinker, and Elon is a real people manager/entrepreneur.

I don't understand why we think successful business people somehow have the same acumen, or equivalent inclinations as a philosopher or an artist. For sure there is some overlap, but at the end of the day I think it's more probable Elon's intelligence and aptitude are overrated by just about everyone while his people managing skills and luck are underrated by just about everyone.

Re: Neuralink’s FDA troubles are just the beginning

#39

Post by crabkin »

leobg wrote: post #27
smt88 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you assume he isn't investing in solving aging privately. It's also a huge pet issue for all his wealthy SV friends (Thiel et al), so he may not feel he needs to add anything to it personally.

Because he thinks death is a useful thing, an enabler of change and adaptation. “People don’t change their minds. They just die.“ He explicitly said that he doesn’t want to live forever. Very different from other Silicon Valley rich kids. Humble, actually. Remember Kurzweil? Called Steve Jobs’ commencement speech about death being nature’s change agent a “deathist statement”.

As Socrates said, why be so afraid of death? Maybe it's the best thing that could ever happen to you.

Re: Neuralink’s FDA troubles are just the beginning

#40

Post by MisterBastahrd »

justrealist wrote: post #25
xiphias2 wrote: post #6

Reversing the aging process looks to be much easier problem to solve than uploading the brain. I dont understand why Elon didnt put his money in that direction. Luckily some people are starting to understand how close we are at solving reversing aging (measured in decades).

Neuralink's premise is that unless humans undergo radical augmentation, we will become obsolete as contrasted to purely-mechanical thinking machines. Electronic / machine augmentation is a strategy for us to stay in-the-loop in order to maintain effective control. Reversing aging does nothing to solve the same problem.

I'll believe that premise when Elon goes under the knife and becomes queen of the Borg.
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