Reducing Iron Oxide with Ammonia: A Sustainable Path to Green Steel

Post by cyberax » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 3:36 AM UTC

1letterunixname wrote: post #54

cyberax wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But we also can synthesize methane from captured carbon dioxide and green hydrogen. It's still more expensive than fossil methane, but it's getting cheaper. But we can start transitioning factories to use methane right now, starting from fossil methane and slowly moving to greener sources.

You're suggesting unworkable processes that would take an absolute crapton of energy and be very expense.

Post by yxhuvud » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 4:37 AM UTC

jojobas wrote: post #50

gumby wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said it: transporting, storing, and otherwise handling ammonia is easier than H2. Amd handling a lump of coke is even easier, which is why we started there.

If hydrogen is electrolytic you can as well make it on site. Steel mills are continuous operations and there is not much need to pool/smooth demand.

Post by emmelaich » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 4:38 AM UTC

iamerroragent wrote: post #42

benkitzelman wrote: post #30

Lots of refs here to the Haber-Bosch process in creating the ammonia... for those interested in a break down of what it is - https://www.carbonbrief.org/qa-what-does-the-worlds-reliance... ...sort of feels like kicking the can down the road if this is how the ammonia is generated for "Green Steel".

From article: " Currently, ammonia is synthesized through the Haber–Bosch process by converting hydrogen and nitrogen into ammonia. In this process, hydrogen is mainly produced via steam methane reforming. This fact makes the process of fossil-fuel-based ammonia synthesis very carbon dioxide intensive, accounting for ≈1% of the global carbon dioxide emissions.[11, 16] Yet more sustainable ammonia synthesis pathways a…

Post by senectus1 » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 5:27 AM UTC

rainbowzootsuit wrote: post #22

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, I struggle to see any situation, barring mismanagement or disaster, where you should be shipping tankers full of hydrogen byproducts like ammonia and losing most of the energy in the process. We are currently importing all the natural gas in Europe, and both the price and carbon footrpint are more than double of what pipeline delivered from Russia. You could build a pipeline from the middle east to Europe fo…

Hydrogen, being so small, penetrates directly through the molecular structure of steel and in the process causes embrittlement of the steel. Is a long distance H2 pipeline a solved problem using alternate materials?

Post by rocqua » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 5:43 AM UTC

kokanee wrote: post #45

iamerroragent wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From article: " Currently, ammonia is synthesized through the Haber–Bosch process by converting hydrogen and nitrogen into ammonia. In this process, hydrogen is mainly produced via steam methane reforming. This fact makes the process of fossil-fuel-based ammonia synthesis very carbon dioxide intensive, accounting for ≈1% of the global carbon dioxide emissions.[11, 16] Yet more sustainable ammonia synthesis pathways a…

I work at a company that is creating better electrolyzers for this process. Ammonia producers are clamoring for this technology. It works, and it is happening!